Devastated, just how could this have happened?

[Polymate3D]

Qt was 10 gallons mostly because the fish were small

The tank was set up a day prior to the fish

The salinity of the established tank is higher about 1.021, the established tank has been running for about 2 years

I appreciate the help

I would suspect the lionfish in that size tank and it's actual current size wasn't bothered.

The Tang being a highly active powder blue probably was still stressed. Them coming straight from shipment to shop to you without a gap probably didn't help with such a finicky fish.

Good LFS typically will keep the fish in store for a week or 2 which can give you the peace of mind that they settled and started eating before moving again, so maybe find out if they offer this. Some extreme LFS will do a quarantine period prior to you even seeing them which is even better.

I lean of the same view as others. The fish load was high (not from you feeding but from what they had already consumed). Ammonia started to rise and wat bacteria was on the sponges wasn't enough to deal with this level of load. A tank twice the size would of naturally had half the ammonia rating which would of been more ideal.

The factor the lionfish went is what makes this seem more than case. There usually super hardy things.

Please get more people's opinions, but I would get a bit of rock that's suitable and place it in your main tank for a week to be 'seeded' then move that over to live in the QT tank as a hiding place and as biological filtration. Doesn't need to be much.
Then with a 10G aquarium I would bring those size and type of fish in 1 at a time, focusing on there needs (tang = herbivore / lionfish = carnivore). Otherwise your dealing with a lot.

Interested to see other people's view on this. I sometimes move my friendly regal damsel I to my QT when I get a new fish if there a rather skittish species (blenny / royal Gramma etc).

Are you fairly new to the hobby, or had experience and this is a suprise? Keep your head up.

- Paul

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Yeah, the fact that you bought them right after they arrived at the store isnt necessarily positive...if you knew how many dead fish are scooped out of tanks in stores the morning after receiving a new shipment you might feel the same

 

[Tamberav]

Anyways, we can't say for certainty what happened, only speculate.

Really sorry you lost your fish. I actually like to get fish right in the bag before they go in LFS water but some people like to wait a few days/week.

The fact that both fish died simultaneously make me think water quality at some point along the way, either in the bag or in the tank.

I use a 20 gallon to QT (min), I don't really find 10's to be adequate. I am actually using a 40B half full right now for 2 fish.

Biota touches on acclimation and ammonia poisoning. Since you are using a QT, just have some RODI/salt on hand and match to whatever the bag is right after you open (after float).

The way I see it.. is both these venders deal with A LOT of fish, they are going to follow the best practice. I mean Biota breeds difficult fish and does many firsts... if they don't have the qualifications to know.. then Idk who does

Acclimation Guide

Biota's acclimation guide for all fish, corals, clams, and inverts: We pack all of our animals with plenty of oxygen and care so that they could survive in transit for many days if necessary. All animals are provided with fresh full-strength saltwater that includes stress reducing and ammonia...

shop.thebiotagroup.com

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

I would suspect the lionfish in that size tank and it's actual current size wasn't bothered.

The Tang being a highly active powder blue probably was still stressed. Them coming straight from shipment to shop to you without a gap probably didn't help with such a finicky fish.

Good LFS typically will keep the fish in store for a week or 2 which can give you the peace of mind that they settled and started eating before moving again, so maybe find out if they offer this. Some extreme LFS will do a quarantine period prior to you even seeing them which is even better.

I lean of the same view as others. The fish load was high (not from you feeding but from what they had already consumed). Ammonia started to rise and wat bacteria was on the sponges wasn't enough to deal with this level of load. A tank twice the size would of naturally had half the ammonia rating which would of been more ideal.

The factor the lionfish went is what makes this seem more than case. There usually super hardy things.

Please get more people's opinions, but I would get a bit of rock that's suitable and place it in your main tank for a week to be 'seeded' then move that over to live in the QT tank as a hiding place and as biological filtration. Doesn't need to be much.
Then with a 10G aquarium I would bring those size and type of fish in 1 at a time, focusing on there needs (tang = herbivore / lionfish = carnivore). Otherwise your dealing with a lot.

Interested to see other people's view on this. I sometimes move my friendly regal damsel I to my QT when I get a new fish if there a rather skittish species (blenny / royal Gramma etc).

Are you fairly new to the hobby, or had experience and this is a suprise? Keep your head up.

- Paul

10 years in fresh and 2 years in salt, it is still indeed a surprise, I really appreciate your help and input, i did have rock some live rock from my previous qt but it was already used for a treatment of praziquantel, i was more worried about the praziquantel not working because of the growth of bacteria which eat the praziquantel before it could work

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

Anyways, we can't say for certainty what happened, only speculate.

Really sorry you lost your fish. I actually like to get fish right in the bag before they go in LFS water but some people like to wait a few days/week.

The fact that both fish died simultaneously make me think water quality at some point along the way, either in the bag or in the tank.

I use a 20 gallon to QT (min), I don't really find 10's to be adequate. I am actually using a 40B half full right now for 2 fish.

Biota touches on acclimation and ammonia poisoning. Since you are using a QT, just have some RODI/salt on hand and match to whatever the bag is right after you open (after float).

The way I see it.. is both these venders deal with A LOT of fish, they are going to follow the best practice. I mean Biota breeds difficult fish and does many firsts... if they don't have the qualifications to know.. then Idk who does

Acclimation Guide

Biota's acclimation guide for all fish, corals, clams, and inverts: We pack all of our animals with plenty of oxygen and care so that they could survive in transit for many days if necessary. All animals are provided with fresh full-strength saltwater that includes stress reducing and ammonia...

shop.thebiotagroup.com

Thank you so much! That's the only thing I'll be following from now on, after reading that makes me understand just how worse my acclimation process was, especially with the delay of the shipment most likely creating more gases in the bag, hence more likely the reason why my fish were more affected now than the ones previously.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

Funny thing, i had bought 10 yellow tail damsels with the pbt and lionfish, did a 30 minute drip acclimation due to the salinity change and poured them in my established tank without any quarantine and they are eating like beasts

But the 1 hour drip acclimation of my tang and lion most likely could've been the cause aswell since they did not eat due to stress

But could've also been that the damsels were already in the shop for about 4 days prior to me ordering them

 

[Polymate3D]

Funny thing, i had bought 10 yellow tail damsels with the pbt and lionfish, did a 30 minute drip acclimation due to the salinity change and poured them in my established tank without any quarantine and they are eating like beasts

But the 1 hour drip acclimation of my tang and lion most likely could've been the cause aswell since they did not eat due to stress

But could've also been that the damsels were already in the shop for about 4 days prior to me ordering them

The damsels although many are also much smaller and less demand and on a bigger aquarium.

Also lionfish when brought in pretty much only go for live food, so the lionfish failing to eat over a short period isn't a big concern in my eyes.

The powder blue would of wanted to graze for algae like they do in the wild, not eat things like brine shrimp and if they did eat a lot of a food they don't normally eat, there digestives system can't cope.

What size is this main aquarium? It's starting to sound like it was empty in wish case I would of considered doing this the other way.

My biggest concern is getting so many fish now so quickly. Most of my aquariums are on the small side (3 to 15 gallons) but I only do 2 fish if there a pair like clownfish or singular. About 1 a month to the limit.

- Paul

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was at college and I get a message from my mother saying (your two fish are dead)

Just how could've this happened? Just two days ago they seemed fine in the quarantine tank, even today morning the tang was swimming around just fine, the only things i can think about is


I bought the fish the exact time it came in stock at the lfs which could've of added stress

The shipment was delayed by 3 hours

I did a methylene blue dip for 1 hour whilest drip acclimating since methylene blue is known to make ammonia less toxic

can't think of ammonia killing them because I used atleast 4 sponges taken from an established tank to put it in the quarantine tank within a cannister filter
Could any of these would've added the killing blow?!

This is likely a water issue and with many possibilities.
Some things to check:

Did heater fail?
Any sprays or cleaners used near the tank?
Power surges?
Salinity change?
Tap water added?
ATO, if one failure?
Doser unit stuck?

heavy breathing?
Loss of appetite?
Gasping at surface?

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

The damsels although many are also much smaller and less demand and on a bigger aquarium.

Also lionfish when brought in pretty much only go for live food, so the lionfish failing to eat over a short period isn't a big concern in my eyes.

The powder blue would of wanted to graze for algae like they do in the wild, not eat things like brine shrimp and if they did eat a lot of a food they don't normally eat, there digestives system can't cope.

What size is this main aquarium? It's starting to sound like it was empty in wish case I would of considered doing this the other way.

My biggest concern is getting so many fish now so quickly. Most of my aquariums are on the small side (3 to 15 gallons) but I only do 2 fish if there a pair like clownfish or singular. About 1 a month to the limit.

- Paul

I did find information that the lionfish do eat live food hence the reason on why I had ordered about 20 ghost shrimp to find me a sustainable source of food until i wean him off of live food

I have about 3 display tanks
One is 210 gallons which is connected to a 60 gallon which has about 5 eels in there

210 gallons has 3 eels
60 gallon 2 juvenile eels with a sailfin tang

Another 150 gallon with one large eel and the said 10 yellow tail damsels which I recently added

I believe that many of this could've been avoided if I instead chose to place them in the main display, because it was rarely that I ever received a fish which was sick from that particular lfs, i did place that 10 yellow tails without quarantine so I'll definitely observe on what's going to go on but so far I don't see anything wrong

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

This is likely a water issue and with many possibilities.
Some things to check:

Did heater fail?
Any sprays or cleaners used near the tank?
Power surges?
Salinity change?
Tap water added?
ATO, if one failure?
Doser unit stuck?

heavy breathing?
Loss of appetite?
Gasping at surface?

My quarantine tank is at the bottom, so I can definitely say that the time in which they were found dead, we had a maid clean that area, but I am not sure since i wasn't there but only saw them lying down when I got home, there was indeed a loss of appetite hence the reason why i dosed praziquantel and metronidazole, but I didn't see any I'll effects of it

 

[Dburr1014]

I did the drip acclimation incase the ph might've been lower and also considered the change of salt

This is where it went south.

Match the salinity in the tank to the bag while doing temp. No drip, dump them in. Zero ammonia, temp is good, ph is close enough.

It is a QT after all. Who cares what's in there water, that is what your fixing.

 

[Doctorgori]

Match the salinity in the tank to the bag while doing temp. No drip, dump them in. Zero ammonia, temp is good, ph is close enough.

Exactly…
Yeah I drip acclimate, if you can call it that…LOL

…biggest issue I have is MANY vendors love that hyposaline water around 20 when most of our tanks are over 30 …
How fast to acclimate up a fish from low saline levels like that is up for debate …
(I won’t admit it in public)