Di resin

40 tds from 280 is very high. Something is setup wrong or damaged.

60psi is ok. If you are using a saddle valve replace it and psi will most likely go up.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/saddle-valves-and-low-pressure-to-rodi-unit.287465/

Yes, definitely install rodi after water softener.

If total chlorine is higher then free chlorine you have chloramines. If you have any chlorine reading post carbon blocks they need replaced and potentially has damaged the membrane.
 
40 tds from 280 is very high. Something is setup wrong or damaged.

60psi is ok. If you are using a saddle valve replace it and psi will most likely go up.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/saddle-valves-and-low-pressure-to-rodi-unit.287465/

Yes, definitely install rodi after water softener.

If total chlorine is higher then free chlorine you have chloramines. If you have any chlorine reading post carbon blocks they need replaced and potentially has damaged the membrane.
No saddle valve I use a pex shark bite fitting 3/4-3/4-1/4. Checked with the city we don't use chloramines only very low chlorine. And I'm going to hook it after the water softener and give it a try thanks
 
Have you tested your water for Chloramine? The Chloramine itself will be absorbed by the activated carbon but some of the byproducts will (like ammonia) will burn out a DI resin filter fairly quickly. I have also heard that chloramine can damage an RO membrane.
Since ammonia does not have a charge the di resin will in fact not filter out the ammonia... if you have chloramines the water quality Association recommends catalytic carbon... membranes love pressure do you know what the pressure is at your house 88% rejection is horrible we actually get rid of membranes when they don't get at least a 90% rejection.
 
Since ammonia does not have a charge the di resin will in fact not filter out the ammonia
Well if that is true then we all are screwed and better start adding Prime to are make up water because NO ACTIVATED CARBON WILL REMOVE AMMONIA, either being Catalytic or not.
 
Not entirely true post above.

Any residual amount of ammonia that may possibly make it past the DI stage I would not worry about. As long as the carbon stages are working properly.

I would also opt for a good carbon block that are much better prepared today for chloramines over loose CGAC.

I'll leave this hear and recommend reading it

Chloramine and the reef aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/
 
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Just a thought. If the membranes are new the Product Data Sheet states the membranes need to run for 24 hours. I believe I read somewhere this is because it can take that long for the membrane to become fully saturated. I could be wrong, someone else might be able to confirm this.

Look under Additional Important Information. Line #1.

DOW FILMTEC™ BW60-1812-75 Element
http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...seps/pdfs/noreg/609-50165.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

• It is recommended that systems using these elements rinse the elements for 24 hours, prior to first use, to meet NSF/ANSI 58 Standard.
 
Since ammonia does not have a charge the di resin will in fact not filter out the ammonia... if you have chloramines the water quality Association recommends catalytic carbon... membranes love pressure do you know what the pressure is at your house 88% rejection is horrible we actually get rid of membranes when they don't get at least a 90% rejection.
Ammonia does not have a charge but ammonium does. In DI water the pH is lower so ammonium becomes dominant
 
Since ammonia does not have a charge the di resin will in fact not filter out the ammonia... if you have chloramines the water quality Association recommends catalytic carbon... membranes love pressure do you know what the pressure is at your house 88% rejection is horrible we actually get rid of membranes when they don't get at least a 90% rejection.
60 psi
 
Not entirely true post above.

Any residual amount of ammonia that may possibly make it past the DI stage I would not worry about. As long as the carbon stages are working properly.

I would also opt for a good carbon block that are much better prepared today for chloramines over loose CGAC.

I'll leave this hear and recommend reading it

Chloramine and the reef aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley

Chloramine can not be removed from the water column, when it pass through these new Carbon blocks ( contain a mix of Catalytic Carbon and ether Coconut Carbon or Bituminous and Coal and much thicker ) but it does break the bond between Chlorine and Chloramine and the Carbon block removes the free Chlorine and Ammonia pass on through to the RO membrane and onto the DI resin, and as far as I have read and investigated, will be removed from the water column via DI resin. If one chooses could actually not use Carbon Blocks at all if their water supply use Chloramine ( Chloramine does not affect RO Membranes well at least not DOW's ) as the DI resin will remove it, but as many have noticed using regular Carbon Blocks it will use up your resin quite quickly. We have seen many posts on many Forums " I have made about 100 to 200 gal. of water and DI resin is spent." Regular Carbon blocks will start to let Chloramine through at anywhere from roughly 150 to 800 gal. which puts it in that range for processed water at roughly 4:1 ratio. Whether one should use one or two blocks I believe depends on one's PH of the water, the higher the PH the hard it is to break the bond, so closer to Neutral the better off you are. This is based on unit working properly and getting 10 ppm or less ( preferably 3 to 6 ppm ).

OK this getting a little off the original question.
was wondering if Di resins are all the same "excluding color changing vs non color changing" are there better quality ones that last longer ? He's my reason , new system Ro Di, tds going in 350 coming out of Ro membrane 40 ppm. Water psi is good 60. Di resins lasts about 100 gallons. Also water is hard.

No not all DI resins are the same. Non color changing will last a little longer.
As to your situation Jeff this it what I would do if it was me.
Order from BRS:

A new DOW 75 gal membrane. ( Best membrane DOW makes and is the standard all others are made after. After over two years mine have just drop from 99 % to 98 % and this is Springtime in Canada water is very cold )
1 new RO membrane flush valve ( it is one pc Flow restrictor / Flush Valve in one pc ).
1 add on canister and as many Pre filters and BRS universal Carbon blocks for Chloramine as you wish. ( I would order 2 Pre and 4 Carbon )
Option 2 would be the Universal Upgrade kit. It will give you a second Carbon Block and a second DI resin, it also comes with 1 pre filter 2 Chloramine Carbon blocks, 2 bags of resin and 1 refill container for resin. Future Resin I would use the SpectraPure Max Cap and Mix bead resins the combination of the two are amazing.
In the end it's up to you. I do know from others that the 100 gal membranes can be touchy, they seem to work much better at higher pressures and with I assume low water temps. and PSI being on the low end and hard water you can get some poor performance. You are not the first I have heard to have this same results with a 100 gal membrane.
Good luck on what ever you decide!
 
Chloramine can not be removed from the water column, when it pass through these new Carbon blocks ( contain a mix of Catalytic Carbon and ether Coconut Carbon or Bituminous and Coal and much thicker ) but it does break the bond between Chlorine and Chloramine and the Carbon block removes the free Chlorine and Ammonia pass on through to the RO membrane and onto the DI resin, and as far as I have read and investigated, will be removed from the water column via DI resin. If one chooses could actually not use Carbon Blocks at all if their water supply use Chloramine ( Chloramine does not affect RO Membranes well at least not DOW's ) as the DI resin will remove it, but as many have noticed using regular Carbon Blocks it will use up your resin quite quickly. We have seen many posts on many Forums " I have made about 100 to 200 gal. of water and DI resin is spent." Regular Carbon blocks will start to let Chloramine through at anywhere from roughly 150 to 800 gal. which puts it in that range for processed water at roughly 4:1 ratio. Whether one should use one or two blocks I believe depends on one's PH of the water, the higher the PH the hard it is to break the bond, so closer to Neutral the better off you are. This is based on unit working properly and getting 10 ppm or less ( preferably 3 to 6 ppm ).

OK this getting a little off the original question.

...

I did not say anything about how chloramines are dealt with and would not suggest a basic carbon block. I only suggested there are carbon blocks out today that are much better prepared to deal with chloramines. Then gave a link to a most excellent article that explains exactly what happens with chloramines. But it's kind of semantics when saying removal. Chloramine can be said it is removed by the carbon. As its broken down it's no longer in its original state.

One of the most impressive examples I've seen is someone going on over 2 years now using a pentek chlorplus 20BB.

Chloramines do indeed effect membranes just not nearly as bad as chlorine. And burning through DI is a very good reason to get a good carbon block to deal with the chloramines. I would always suggest 2 as relatively cheap insurance to have one backup the other. Unless one plans to constantly test for free and total chlorine.


Edit: Fyi, I was responding to airwaterice's post previously
 
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Well if that is true then we all are screwed and better start adding Prime to are make up water because NO ACTIVATED CARBON WILL REMOVE AMMONIA, either being Catalytic or not.
Rejection rates of ammonia by your membrane are largely dependent on your ph. I have a few faq's on my website about this subject.
 
Rejection rates of ammonia by your membrane are largely dependent on your ph. I have a few faq's on my website about this subject.

Links to the FAQ of interest?



From http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

Removing Chloramine With Activated Carbon: Does it Really Work?

There has been much debate over whether commercial RO/DI systems used by aquarists are actually removing chloramine in adequate quantity. The concern is not whether they can theoretically do so, but whether the actual units allow sufficient contact time between the water and the activated carbon for the units to do an adequate job.

I have been using a Spectrapure RO/DI system (CSP25DI) for years, and my water does contain chloramine, so naturally I was interested to know if it was up to the task. In discussing the issue with Charles Mitsis, President of Spectrapure, he said that my water was among the most difficult to successfully remove chloramine from because the pH was high, and he was not sure that the unit was adequate. The reasons for being concerned were that:

1. Monochloramine is the most difficult of the three chloramine species to remove because it is small (allowing it to pass through a reverse osmosis membrane).
2. Monochloramine is the most chemically stable of the chloramine species, so is the hardest to break down (as on activated carbon).
3. Monochloramine predominates over the other forms in tap water at pH above 7 (dichloramine predominates at pH 4-7).
4. The pores of the activated carbon may become plugged with sediment over time, reducing the effectiveness of the carbon at breaking apart chloramine.
5. At high pH, the pores of the RO membrane can swell, resulting in poorer rejection of impurities.
With this as the backdrop, I set about organizing a round of testing by aquarists to see if their commercially-available systems were adequately removing chloramine.

First, I selected a single, high quality test method for participants to use: the Hach CN-70 kit described above. I then asked aquarists to test several things:

1. The free and total chlorine in their tap water after letting it run for a while.
2. The free and total chlorine in their RO reject water.
3. The free and total chlorine in their finished RO/DI water.
4. The pH of the tap water.
In my case, for example, I had the following results:

Tap water:
pH ~9
Total Chlorine: 0.4-0.5 ppm one day, 0.08 ppm on a second day.
Free chlorine: <0.01 ppm (effectively all of the total chlorine was chloramine)

RO Reject water:
Total Chlorine: 0.02 ppm
Free chlorine: <0.01 ppm

Final RO/DI water:
Total Chlorine: <0.01 ppm

Consequently, within the capabilities of the Hach test kit (0.01 ppm), there is no chloramine getting through the system. A small amount does appear to get past the carbon to the RO waste water, but it does not get through the RO membrane and DI resin.

A similar set of data (more or less complete) was collected from about 20 aquarists in different parts of the country. These included systems that were stated to have a capacity of 25-100 gallons per day, the higher volume systems being especially interesting because the contact time with the carbon might be shorter. All but one had similar results to those reported here. The anomalous report produced the following results:

Tap Water:
pH 8.2
Total Chlorine: >3.5 ppm
Free Chlorine: >3.5 ppm

Filtered Tap Water: (single cartridge under sink, cold water side)
Total Chlorine: 0.7 ppm
Free Chlorine: 0.38 ppm

RO water: (11 month old cartridges)
Total Chlorine: 0.16 ppm
Free Chlorine: 0.06 ppm

RO/DI water: (11 month old cartridges)
Total Chlorine: 0.04 ppm
Free Chlorine: 0.02 ppm

RO/DI water: (Fresh cartridges)
Total Chlorine: <0.01 ppm
Free Chlorine: <0.01 ppm

In short, his tap water chloramine (and chlorine) levels were quite high. His old carbon and sediment cartridges were not quite up to the task, but when replaced, were adequate to remove all of the chloramine. Note that the 11 month old cartridges were still producing 0-1 ppm TDS RO/DI water.

Lessons Learned and Suggestions:

1. Most RO/DI systems seem capable of removing chloramine adequately for aquarists.
2.
The carbon cartridge may become less useful over time, and it is possible that the chloramine removal effectiveness of a system may be lost before the DI appears to need changing.
3.
Cheap sediment cartridges may expose the carbon cartridge to unnecessary fouling, which may permit chloramine to pass through the system. Cartridges should be replaced as soon as the pressure drops significantly, even if RO/DI water is still being produced at a reasonable rate or purity as measured by total dissolved solids.
4.
Testing for chlorine and chloramine is easy, so any concern is easily reconciled.
5.
One Hach kit provides several dozen test results. Our local Boston Club bought some kits and had a "water testing day." The kits can also become part of the "library" of a local club for aquarists to use once in a while to see if their systems are functioning. That way, the cost to each aquarist is minimal.
Conclusions

Chloramine in tap water should be a significant concern to aquarists. Its peculiar properties make it well suited to disinfection of water supplies, but also make it a potential toxin in aquaria. In order to render the water safe for use, aquarists need to use one of two systems for purification: an inorganic reducing agent combined with an additive that binds ammonia (or a single product that does both), or an RO/DI system. Chloramine is toxic enough that it would seem prudent for aquarists to spend the time and money necessary to ensure that they do not unduly stress their organisms. This activity includes setting up appropriate purification systems, and may also include testing the water to ensure that those systems are functioning properly.

Happy Reefing!


Pretty much helps reassure me that my every 6 month change out of my carbon blocks whether I really needed to or not is good insurance to make sure to keep up with proper filtration with out having to constantly test the water.
 

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