Diatom filter for treating external parasites?

[ROD SCOTT]

NO WORRIES, FILTER SOAKED IN BLEACH WATER RINSE BOTTLE AND PUMP SECTION WITH WATER AFTER FILTER SOAKS OVERNIGHT

YOU MAY NEED TWO IF YOU USE COPPER IN QT, I DO NOT, TOO MUCH STRESS, TREAT WHERE IT IS FOUND.
DT FOR QT AND ONLY CORAL SAFE PRODUCTS. LESS STRESS HIGHER SURVIVAL RATE. FEED, FEED, FEED FAT AND HAPPY

 

[klp]

Here are some conclusions I've reached based on logic and my understanding of parasite life cycles:

• Assuming your tank is already infested with ich or velvet: You would need to run a diatom continuously for either 41 days (velvet) or 72 days (ich) for a reasonable chance of complete eradication in a DT. In actuality, you probably need to run it for a lot longer than that. But 41 or 72 days would be required to give the diatom an opportunity to suck out each & every free swimmer as they "hatch" from the embedded tomonts.
• If you are using a diatom from Day 1, before any fish are added, there is a possibility the protomont is sucked out before it ever has a chance to encyst upon rock, substrate, etc. This could happen 3-7 days after a fish infected with ich is introduced into an aquarium, or 4 days max for velvet. If this theory is correct, fish still have to "weather the storm" of parasites on their body and inside their gills, but would be protected from any future reinfection due to the presence of the DE.
• Aquarium grade diatom filters (i.e. Vortex) are not suitable for long-term use in SW; only FW. These also are a PITA to use, clean, recharge, etc. So, your only option for long term use in SW is to build a DIY DE using materials capable of withstanding corrosive saltwater. Contact @robert or @Paul B for more info on how to do this.
• However, even a Vortex should hold up for 10 days of continuous saltwater use in a QT. And this is the route I plan to take for experimentation purposes. Give a test subject infected with velvet the usual FW dip/chemical bath to deal with the "surface parasites" and then place the fish in a non-medicated QT with a running diatom filter. 10 days later transfer the fish to a non-medicated HT to see if symptoms return. For my purposes, the working diatom filter will take the place of any chemical or hyposalinity treatment. Instead of zapping free swimmers with chemicals/hypo - I will rely upon the DE to suck them (and possibly even the stage that drops off the fish) out of the water before they can reinfect. 10 days will allow enough time for velvet or even ich to drop off a fish. In theory, I should be leaving behind any parasite problems in the QT and the fish should have a "clean slate" once put in the HT.

I am having a hard time imagining what 10 days will prove. If they are re-infected that one or some found the fish first before the DE filter? If they are not re-infected that you were lucky? Not sure what can be "proved" here in 10 days.

 

[klp]

Working my way through this. Great discussion. I sent a question into Marineland if their external filters would work as the internal pump does as a diatom filter. Have not heard back yet.
Also the links that were given no longer work.
For Model D1: http://www.bearvalleyaquatics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_5_7&products_id=185
For Model XL: http://www.bearvalleyaquatics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=169

There is a product from Bear Valley Aquatics that is specifically made to filter with diatomic earth for those interested.
http://www.bearvalleyaquatics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=233

 

[Paul B]

Or you can just fill it with fresh water for the night. Parasites hate fresh water which is the reason for the fresh water dip.

 

[reefwiser]

what would you have to do to use a diatom filter on multiple tanks for parasite control? i dont want to cross contaminate by using it on a QT,HT and DT. What steps if any would i have to take? Thank Tom

The marineland polishing filter
Marineland Magnum Polishing Interna.../B01C8PH0OI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_HEGuMICSBNbZR

This filter is easy to work with and you can use a bleach mixture to sanitize it after each use.

 

[Humblefish]

I am having a hard time imagining what 10 days will prove. If they are re-infected that one or some found the fish first before the DE filter? If they are not re-infected that you were lucky? Not sure what can be "proved" here in 10 days.

I've proven (to myself anyway) that I can use copper or CP to clear a fish of ich or velvet in just 10 days. I accomplish this by exposing an infected specimen to 10 days worth of therapeutic levels (very important), and then transfer the fish into a clean QT at least 10 feet away from the original treatment tank.

So, I would like to put a DE filter to the same test. Drop a fish with active signs of ich/velvet into a QT with just a DE running. After 10 days, transfer the fish to a clean QT at least 10 feet away, and take gill scrapes to see whether or not the fish is parasite free.

The logic here is the same: A chemical protects a fish from reinfection by zapping any free swimmers before they can attach. A DE should siphon any free swimmers out before they can attach. Remember, the longest any parasite trophont (ich) can remain on a fish is 7 days. After that, the only way he becomes reinfected is if nothing is present to eliminate the free swimmers from the water he's in.

 

[justingraham]

I've proven (to myself anyway) that I can use copper or CP to clear a fish of ich or velvet in just 10 days. I accomplish this by exposing an infected specimen to 10 days worth of therapeutic levels (very important), and then transfer the fish into a clean QT at least 10 feet away from the original treatment tank.

So, I would like to put a DE filter to the same test. Drop a fish with active signs of ich/velvet into a QT with just a DE running. After 10 days, transfer the fish to a clean QT at least 10 feet away, and take gill scrapes to see whether or not the fish is parasite free.

The logic here is the same: A chemical protects a fish from reinfection by zapping any free swimmers before they can attach. A DE should siphon any free swimmers out before they can attach. Remember, the longest any parasite trophont (ich) can remain on a fish is 7 days. After that, the only way he becomes reinfected is if nothing is present to eliminate the free swimmers from the water he's in.

Would u buy a bigger house already so u can do this experiment?

Thanks for u dedicated work humble without u I don't think my fish would be as healthy as they are

 

[Paul B]

and then transfer the fish into a clean QT at least 10 feet away from the original treatment tank.

OMG, I never realized parasites could fly

I knew they were related to Godzilla, But I didn't think they were also related to Rodan. Who Know? Thank you for telling me this.

 

[Humblefish]

OMG, I never realized parasites could fly

I knew they were related to Godzilla, But I didn't think they were also related to Rodan. Who Know? Thank you for telling me this.

Let me take you back to school, son.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848606001785

Abstract
Amyloodinium ocellatum, a frequently encountered parasite in marine aquaculture, was investigated to determine if infective dinospore stages could be transported in aerosol droplets. We used an in vivo model incorporating static and dynamic airflow systems and found dinospores of A. ocellatum could travel in aerosol droplets (up to 440 mm in a static system and up to 3 m in a dynamic one). This is the first record of this transmission pathway for a marine protozoan parasite. It is possible that other marine protozoans can transfer via the aerobiological pathway. Management of A. ocellatum infections in aquaculture facilities could be affected, particularly where tanks and ponds are situated in close proximity.

 

[Brew12]

Let me take you back to school, son.

Parasites will fly the day Paul B moves to a golfing community!

 

[Paul B]

I love all this talk about parasites, It makes me all tingly. It's so uplifting. Thank God I never have to worry about them, even the ones that can fly up to 440 mm in a static system and up to 3 m in a dynamic one. I am not sure if I have a static or a dynamic system. I guess If I played RAP music near my tank it would be a dynamic system. The only system I have is an immune system so when those parasites try to fly into my tank, they burn up at least 439 mm from my tank.

Of course I had to get out my metric ruler to actually measure that.

I especially like this part which sounds fascinating
"We used an in vivo model incorporating static and dynamic airflow systems"
Why don't you just not use an In vivo airflow system"? . Like, shut off the fan.

I often wonder if the parasites could also infuse themselves through the glass, sort of like "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The original one not the remake.

This reminds me of the bible where frogs were one of the plagues God let loose on the Pharaoh.
I mean, they were frogs, just step out of their way or eat them. They had nothing else to eat anyway because the locusts ate all their Broklirob. I am not sure if frogs could fly more than 439mm or if they can just get to 432mm where at that point they hit the pyramids and splat making big green splotches on the thing.

I am soooo happy I didn't go to college. If I did, I think I would have all those problems. Not knowing about them, prevents them.

You know what those researchers need? A fish tank, not a lab, just a fish tank
But I still love you Humble. Parasites and all

 

[klp]

I love all this talk about parasites, It makes me all tingly. It's so uplifting. Thank God I never have to worry about them, even the ones that can fly up to 440 mm in a static system and up to 3 m in a dynamic one. I am not sure if I have a static or a dynamic system. I guess If I played RAP music near my tank it would be a dynamic system. The only system I have is an immune system so when those parasites try to fly into my tank, they burn up at least 439 mm from my tank.

Of course I had to get out my metric ruler to actually measure that.

I especially like this part which sounds fascinating
"We used an in vivo model incorporating static and dynamic airflow systems"
Why don't you just not use an In vivo airflow system"? . Like, shut off the fan.

I often wonder if the parasites could also infuse themselves through the glass, sort of like "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The original one not the remake.

This reminds me of the bible where frogs were one of the plagues God let loose on the Pharaoh.
I mean, they were frogs, just step out of their way or eat them. They had nothing else to eat anyway because the locusts ate all their Broklirob. I am not sure if frogs could fly more than 439mm or if they can just get to 432mm where at that point they hit the pyramids and splat making big green splotches on the thing.

I am soooo happy I didn't go to college. If I did, I think I would have all those problems. Not knowing about them, prevents them.

You know what those researchers need? A fish tank, not a lab, just a fish tank
But I still love you Humble. Parasites and all

Now that is really true love...

 

[Stylo328]

I need help!

I purchased a magnum canister filter and the pool filter DE. I followed the video instructions carefully. As you can see from the video below though, the filter is continually blowing bubbles after running for a few hours. I tried to Google search but came up empty. Any thoughts on what I can do to stop the bubbles?


Thanks!

 

[reefwiser]

Generally the rubber gasket on the bottom of the container can become deformed and cause some bubbles. I don't worry unless I start seeing DE coming out into the tank.

 

[Turboreefer]

HOW about using a RO container and use 1 micron sediment filter. Same thing?

 

[Turboreefer]

How about
Using a 1 micron filter wigh rO
Canister

 

[hart24601]

That might be possible. I think the hard part is how fast it will clog and have to throw the RO filter away. Even a big diatom filter clogs after just a couple hours normally, however you just toss the powder (although maybe one could try and clean it?) and use new powder that is inexpensive. I would think a 1um RO filter would clog very quickly before much could even be passed though it. It's normal use on tap water it lasts a long time because tap is much cleaner than reef tank water.

 

[Turboreefer]

I had a failed QT and fallow attempt and lost a yellow tang and my buddy flame hawk fish. So all fish are back to DT. I recently added a yellow tang and now I see a few spots on him. Saw this thread and added a marineland magnum with DE. Is there anybody can confirm they used it successfully? Or is there a better filter than marineland? My lfs has vortex but I read it has copper parts and not reef safe.

 

[Brew12]

I had a failed QT and fallow attempt and lost a yellow tang and my buddy flame hawk fish. So all fish are back to DT. I recently added a yellow tang and now I see a few spots on him. Saw this thread and added a marineland magnum with DE. Is there anybody can confirm they used it successfully? Or is there a better filter than marineland? My lfs has vortex but I read it has copper parts and not reef safe.

How do you define "successfully"? If you are asking if it will eradicate cryptocaryon irritans from your system, the answer is no. Will it remove enough of the parasites from the water to allow your fish to survive despite having some crypto? That depends on how well you feed them, how low you keep their stress, and can be specific with each fish.

 

[Turboreefer]

I see, I was thinking if it removes only 60 percent of the irritants each time, if you were to run it enough times at the end it should eradicate all eventually.

How long can I run it? is it ok to run it 30 -60 days continuously?