Diatom problems,,, not getting any better

[aquablizz]

I am slowing trying to move from a fish only system to some invert's and corals.. My system has been running for approx. 10 years and includes a 75gal display tank with a 40gal sump/fuge containing 4 compartments including the protein skimmer.
My main filtration is the heavy growth of macro growing in the fuge section with some mature live rock. Also in one of the compartments I have CerMedia MarinePure 1.5-Inch Sphere Bio-Filter with some carbon to supplement the macro..

I run a Current Marine led light 10 hrs per day.

My Diatom problem started about two months after I introduced an additional 25lbs of dead rock to my display tank. I cleaned the rock with acid and let it cycle for only a month before placing it in my tank. The entire tank floor and all the rock get completely covered in a brown dust almost making it unbearable to look at. This stuff is so light that when a snail transverses across a piece of rock it leave a white trail.. I can brush and blow it off only to have it return within 48 hours.
Remember this started 2 months after the introduction of the new rock which was nearly bright white when I put it in the tank.
My substrate is 1 inch crushed coral that has also been in the display tank for years. I vacuum through the substrate whenever I do a water change.

Also I have a growth of Coraline algae that I have to keep after on a regular bases mostly growing on the glass and plastic parts within the display tank.

I have 4 fish which I feed very sparingly

I only have a small piece of brown plate coral which appears to be doing very well and is increasing in size and some hairy mushroom which was doing great and split twice in the three months that I've had it but now it appears not to be doing so well...

My water quality comes in at zero nitrates, 10ppB with the hanna checker, ph-8, cal-450 salinity 1.022 and KH which is low in the area of 100.. I do monthly water changes of 20%..

I hoping that something that I am doing wrong or missing will jump out for one of our members so I can get this turnaround.

 

[aquablizz]

this is a picture of what I call the snail trail which is basically a snail crawling across a piece of rock.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates.350901/

if you'd like to see a physical work option/way of forcing out your invaders consider the thread I linked in that dino thread. 75 gallons is big, but we have some 75 gallon work in our sand rinse thread.

why not just change out that bed for new?


also lighting, that doesn't look ultra blue and strong whites can cause some persistence

did you adjust the lighting to less blue for the pic

 

[aquablizz]

Thanks for the reply Brandon. Its not just the bed but everything... I am going to try and adjust the lighting. I have equal amounts of blue and white. Don't these diatoms run their course in a couple months... I've been dealing with them for 3 months now..
Also thanks for the link. I'll be sure to check it out.

 

[brandon429]

I agree they're abnormal for such an aged system, ill never see them in my tank but somehow they're always associated with that new rock component though I don't know why. UV sterilizer is a cheat for them for sure, and, not a terrible waste of money on such a large system, helps with dino prevention, cyano, few select pathogens, not a waste of time. UV wont clean those off your rocks, but when you do, they're among the #1 things that even weak/incorrectly matched UV can beat.

when you acid burned the old rock (advisable, who wants a ton of jerky organics) it made them essentially just like marco rocks, and diatoms and marco rocks go hand n hand it w smooth out in time even if a bit delayed here in my opinion, but some actions are avail too to reduce wait if wanted.

 

[aquablizz]

after looking at the link you sent me,, my problem looks nothing like the pictures in the thread. I have absolutely no stringy or slimmy things going on in my tank.. it's basically like dust for a lack of better term.. do you think were talking about the same thing?

 

[brandon429]

I was just meaning that link I provided them, agreed that's full on dino there you have it much easier.

your tank may not need this at all, but its merely a reference of a bunch of tanks getting taken apart and put back together without losing stuff, if you ever want. aside from the dinos that bed may warrant a refreshing change depending on your balances. anytime I change mine, the corals are hungry and the tank has room to take in feed and waste its always a recharging event for my tank.

this thread here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

[aquablizz]

Is there any correlation between diatoms and cyno??? It certainly appears that the more I dust off the diatoms and put activated charcoal in my sump compartment, I'm now noticing cyno starting to form on my substrate and rock... Don't really see an end to this... worst thing I ever did was move from a fish only to reefing..

 

[brandon429]

I promise it just needs guiding out, we do not have a single tank that runs through our sand rinse thread that comes out invaded. Once we beat this, then have a bulletproof plan for hair algae you’ll never hate reefing again you’ll prefer it

You need hardly any white lights here, do blues

If you do a sand rinse the right way it will stop, it partial actions are taken it might not. How did you produce those top pics, was it just a good siphon cleaning or did you take the tank apart

 

[aquablizz]

I promise it just needs guiding out, we do not have a single tank that runs through our sand rinse thread that comes out invaded. Once we beat this, then have a bulletproof plan for hair algae you’ll never hate reefing again you’ll prefer it

You need hardly any white lights here, do blues

If you do a sand rinse the right way it will stop, it partial actions are taken it might not. How did you produce those top pics, was it just a good siphon cleaning or did you take the tank apart

Hi Brandon,,, not sure you were replying to my thread or not... I have only one picture and it does not show the substrate, just a piece of rock with the snail trail on it..

Blizz

 

[EmdeReef]

I wouldn’t worry about diatoms, they look ugly but are harlmess...3 months isn’t too long especially since you add some silicates with water changes and possible other sources. They’ll go away soon enough, not sure you can do much about it tbh. Guess could add some cuc or a herbivore fish, my foxface loved eating them. In any event won’t hurt anything in your tank.

Do you run gfo? Could help bind the silicates and cut the food source.

Also, unrelated to diatoms but should probably raise salinity to 1.025/6: .022 is likely too low for corals.

 

[aquablizz]

I wouldn’t worry about diatoms, they look ugly but are harlmess...3 months isn’t too long especially since you add some silicates with water changes and possible other sources. They’ll go away soon enough, not sure you can do much about it tbh. Guess could add some cuc or a herbivore fish, my foxface loved eating them. In any event won’t hurt anything in your tank.

Do you run gfo? Could help bind the silicates and cut the food source.

Also, unrelated to diatoms but should probably raise salinity to 1.025/6: .022 is likely too low for corals.

Thanks so much for the reply,,, I was running gfo but actually thought that maybe the diatoms was actually dust from the gfo and I pulled it. I have been blowing it off nearly everyday but now I am noticing what appears to be cyno invading. I'm pulling my hair out at this stage because things won't turn around.. I have seen where some posters feel a zero nitrate can cause a situation like this.. and there has been discussion on the use of activated carbon potentially contributing to cyno outbreaks... this stuff never ends...

 

[EmdeReef]

Could be the gfo powder although diatoms do blow like dust... but from what I’ve seen the gfo dust generally accumulates on glass quite heavily. It would also be all over your coral and would likely irritate it quite a bit.

I don’t know about the connection between running carbon and cyano.
When dosing carbon you can have cyano problems because of the nitrate to phosphate imbalance as nitrates deplete faster. I’ve only had cyano once in over 15yrs but there are great experts on here. If it’s localized you can physically remove then maybe feed a bit more to boost your nitrates. Won’t affect your diatom problem.

Hang in there, it gets better, but yes definitely part of the hobby is almost constant troubleshooting. Having coralline growth is a really good sign for sps so you’re already half way there and again keep in mind diatoms are mostly a cosmetic problem.

 

[landlubber]

I would never consider running gfo in a system with already undetectable nitrates and 10ppb (which is 0.03ppm) phosphate, a refugium AND bio-media. my bet is you have driven your nutrients low enough that you made an inviting environment for dinoflagellates. you should consider getting a sample under a microscope so you can ID what the issue really is.

 

[EmdeReef]

+1
I missed the phosphate numbers thought it was just no nitrates. Agreed, should increase feeding and get the nutrients up.

 

[aquablizz]

what is the quickest way to get the nutrients up,,,, got to get the stuff together... thanks for the input..

blizz

 

[landlubber]

what is the quickest way to get the nutrients up,,,, got to get the stuff together... thanks for the input..

blizz

in the short term I would significantly cut the photoperiod on the refugium and not use gfo. the quickest way to bump your nutrients is to dose pure phosphate and pure nitrate slowly and test until you reach your goal (2-5ppm NO3 and 12-25ppb PO4) there are a few ways to do this and none of them are particularly difficult. look into either seachem products (in the freshwater plant sections at pet stores as they make both phosphate and nitrate) or google spectracide and mix your own potassium nitrate.
the most gradual way would be to step up feeding or depending on you stocking levels, add fish.
regardless of what you do you will have be pay close attention to your phosphate and nitrate testing to ensure you're on track and never let things bottom out.

 

[EmdeReef]

what is the quickest way to get the nutrients up,,,, got to get the stuff together... thanks for the input..

blizz

The fastest way is by dosing but
You can start by feeding more. If that doesn’t work after a week you can consider dosing nitrates and phosphates.

Increasing nutrients won’t help with diatoms, shouldn’t make it worse though. Could help with cyano if you strike a balance between N and P.

What you’re describing doesn’t sound like Dinos, they are usually pretty slimy and “bubbly”. Definitely not as easy to blow off rocks. You can google pics and compare or try to post a closeup pic but the difference between diatoms and dinos is generally pretty easy to spot.

 

[aquablizz]

thanks for all the input... really happy to see other members getting involved in my situation... It's funny that for the past 10 years my goal for a fish only tank was to have a minimum of both nitrates and phosphates... all of a sudden that appears not to be the case...

The reason that I felt my display tank is beginning a cyno bloom is the rock and substrate have began to turn a reddish color instead of the usual brown dust that I've been brushing and blowing off for the past couple of months.. I have also noticed that my macro algae is not growing in my sump the way it did in the past... I'll do whatever it takes but it's very disheartening to see these turn of events after having a perfectly healthy fish only take for a long time.... BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.. lol

 

[Dana Riddle]

I had an issue with diatoms and it was only after adding Chaetomorpha to the sump and adding two conchs and a dozen snails (Astreas, Turbos) did the situation get under control. This is what I tried initially: UV sterilizer to kill gametes (didn't seem to help), raising the pH to 8.5 (zilch), running GFO to remove silica (nothing), water changes (nada). We also lost power for two days during a winter storm and this loss of light didn't seem to have any real effect either. The snails/conchs were slowly removing the diatoms, but the addition of the Chaeto made an astounding difference, and quickly. Some patches of the stuff disappeared literally overnight. I suspect the Chaeto had a inhibiting effect (much as bales of barley will kill of microalgal growths in large ponds.) The improvement has been so complete that I don't even need to clean the glass but maybe once every 3 weeks or so. In addition, this diatoms species definitely had a negative impact on some of the corals. Acropora species were most affected as was a Blastomussa (this coral ejected some stringy green fluorescent material through its mouth twice after I scrubbed some of the rock with a brush or cleaned the glass.) Of course, these effects could quite possibly be species specific - what worked for me might not in another case.