Diatoms not going away.

[chris124]

I have had a diatom problem for a while now and its not getting any better. My Nitrates are 0 and with GFO my po4 is under 0.03 ppm. I'm starting to think its my RODI water. Because if I go a month with out a water change it slows down. But as soon as I do my water change its like pouring gas on a fire. What I dont understand is the water coming out is reading 0 tds with a inline tds meter and a hand held meter. My water company dose you well water so I guess that could be a problem. Other than the diatoms algae is no problem knock on wood.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have had a diatom problem for a while now and its not getting any better. My Nitrates are 0 and with GFO my po4 is under 0.03 ppm. I'm starting to think its my RODI water. Because if I go a month with out a water change it slows down. But as soon as I do my water change its like pouring gas on a fire. What I dont understand is the water coming out is reading 0 tds with a inline tds meter and a hand held meter. My water company dose you well water so I guess that could be a problem. Other than the diatoms algae is no problem knock on wood.

may we see a picture?. What salt are you using? An investment in a cheap tds meter may be in order(I dont I know if the inlines fail but..) yea weird.

 

[chris124]

Im using reef crystals and I have also checked it with a handheld meter.

 

[chris124]

Not sure how well you can see it but it's golden brown and blows off like dust.

 

[chris124]

I'm about to the point of buying some water from my lfs and see what happens.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Pics not very good. But its golden brown and blows off like dust.

and your rodi is new ish good working order. weird.
Always on the sand?
Id like to get some more eyes on this.
#reefsquad
@brandon429 @twilliard @mcarroll

 

[chris124]

Yes mostly on the sand.

 

[brandon429]

I see it this way:

there is a thread from Nanareefer showing this same condition persisting for over 25 months. I used reefcrystals for 8 yrs straight, and could revert back to it at any time, and never have that growth because I keep a blast-cleaned sandbed. the growth is disallowed, doesn't matter the name brand of any salt or substrate, its the method.

To have the balance earned where someone can keep a hands-off sandbed and still be cyano free is a luxury, its not the only allowed mode of tank care to be hands off on the substrate. When my tank stores up detritus due to noncare periods, the sandbed does something similar above, I rinse it all out with tap water and then reset up the reef as a skip cycle rebuild, then it doesn't do that for like 9 mo mos of pure lazy care. That growth in my tank is a pure function of a sandbed that cannot pass a clouding test (pick up/drop some sand in the tank, it likely makes a huge waste cloud) and the lighting on my Kessil being too white.

after a rip cleaning, and for the better part of a year each year x10 so far, the blast cleaning makes my sandbed pass, not fail, the drop test and the cyano stays gone, that's my correlation.

I think anyone that can have a hands off sanbed in fine balance, not becoming eutrophic on top, should have that. but if not, then force it to behave that always works.

 

[chris124]

I see it this way:

there is a thread from Nanareefer showing this same condition persisting for over 25 months. I used reefcrystals for 8 yrs straight, and could revert back to it at any time, and never have that growth because I keep a blast-cleaned sandbed. the growth is disallowed, doesn't matter the name brand of any salt or substrate, its the method.

To have the balance earned where someone can keep a hands-off sandbed and still be cyano free is a luxury, its not the only allowed mode of tank care to be hands off on the substrate. When my tank stores up detritus due to noncare periods, the sandbed does something similar above, I rinse it all out with tap water and then reset up the reef as a skip cycle rebuild, then it doesn't do that for like 9 mo mos of pure lazy care. That growth in my tank is a pure function of a sandbed that cannot pass a clouding test (pick up/drop some sand in the tank, it likely makes a huge waste cloud) and the lighting on my Kessil being too white.

after a rip cleaning, and for the better part of a year each year x10 so far, the blast cleaning makes my sandbed pass, not fail, the drop test and the cyano stays gone, that's my correlation.

I think anyone that can have a hands off sanbed in fine balance, not becoming eutrophic on top, should have that. but if not, then force it to behave that always works.

Are you saying that you remove your sand and rinse it? With all my rock that would be a pain.

 

[Cary Meredith]

Ok, just going to throw this out there, I just started my tank back up and was having a huge issue with green hair algae and diatoms, I saw a post some place that said that water temps should actually be around 82-84 range for saltwater and a lot of corals will flourish better at that temp, so I decided to try it. Not trying to think my hair algae or diatom would go away but within 2 days of raising my temp both were completely gone and have been gone for over a month. I still get a little diatom in my refugium over night when the lights been on but that's ok with me. I have been running the higher temp for about a month, granted just getting corals back in so can't say anything about growth, better or worse but at least the algae's are gone. Just an idea.

 

[chris124]

Ok, just going to throw this out there, I just started my tank back up and was having a huge issue with green hair algae and diatoms, I saw a post some place that said that water temps should actually be around 82-84 range for saltwater and a lot of corals will flourish better at that temp, so I decided to try it. Not trying to think my hair algae or diatom would go away but within 2 days of raising my temp both were completely gone and have been gone for over a month. I still get a little diatom in my refugium over night when the lights been on but that's ok with me. I have been running the higher temp for about a month, granted just getting corals back in so can't say anything about growth, better or worse but at least the algae's are gone. Just an idea.

My tank ran at that temp all summer and I had the diatoms the whole time. But thanks for the suggestion. I;m thinking the problem is with my rodi water or the reef crystals. But thats just a guess.

 

[brandon429]

If the sandbed cannot pass a drop test or if a sample taken from the bottom of the sandbed has higher nutrients than The top water there is no other control method other than offsets like carbon dosing, dosing something to the water, increased flow etc. that's the liability of a sandbed in the display tank


Bare bottom tanks having that growth on the bottom glass are rare, very rare. Sandbeds do this commonly we see in posts. Cleaning off the top layers of this growth then installing a large uv sterilizer can work as an offset, as well as making lights bluer and less white

We also show in sand rinsing threads that to start off with an unrinsed bed full of fine particulate dust/silt adds potential for this kind of invasion. We like to blast rinse new live sand before it's even used the first time, hands on cures this condition.

 

[chris124]

If the sandbed cannot pass a drop test or if a sample taken from the bottom of the sandbed has higher nutrients than The top water there is no other control method other than offsets like carbon dosing, dosing something to the water, increased flow etc. that's the liability of a sandbed in the display tank


Bare bottom tanks having that growth on the bottom glass are rare, very rare. Sandbeds do this commonly we see in posts. Cleaning off the top layers of this growth then installing a large uv sterilizer can work as an offset, as well as making lights bluer and less white

We also show in sand rinsing threads that to start off with an unrinsed bed full of fine particulate dust/silt adds potential for this kind of invasion. We like to blast rinse new live sand before it's even used the first time, hands on cures this condition.

Ok thanks.

 

[brandon429]

There's no judgement imo if someone wants to use chemicals to try and beat it back, plenty of options whatever works is the same ends.

That group of invaders you pictured will commonly show up in tanks cyclically where invaders like valonia have to be purposely brought in and once eradicated, can only be brought back by direct import. It is not possible to generate red brush algae for example in my tank, it hasn't been imported so it's presence would mean quarantine+eradication skipped, a misstep.


if we were to dose planted tank fertilizer to any reef tank in the world green micro and hair algae + cyano/spirulina/bac mats would flourish... nobody immune... neat indicator of how they get around for potentiation with or without us.


I expect to have to work occasionally to prevent those kinds of growths above, but if dinos showed up in my tank I'd be incensed and vying not to repeat the import wherever it occurred

 

[chris124]

This has to be coming from my rodi water. Because it slows down when its time for w/c and after w/c its like a poured gas on a fire. My rodi water is showing 0tds. Dose anyone know if silicates show as tds or do I need to just get a silicate test kit. If so dose anyone know of a good test. Thanks.

 

[mcarroll]

I have had a diatom problem for a while now and its not getting any better.

How old is this tank?

What is its nutrient history like?

My Nitrates are 0 and with GFO my po4 is under 0.03 ppm. I'm starting to think its my RODI water. Because if I go a month with out a water change it slows down. But as soon as I do my water change its like pouring gas on a fire.

Do you see PO4 spike when you take GFO offline? How much GFO do you have to use to maintain current levels?

If you really think it's the RODI, then change your DI filter (or more if you want) to one specially graded for silicate removal, and make new RODI water with that.

If water changes still seem to fuel the diatoms, then I'd say it may only be coincidence. I'd try doing something to increase nitrogen input to the tank – or at least to make it more consistent.

That group of invaders you pictured

zero nitrates could be fostering them vs allowing the usual "progression" to green algae.

Where did you see a picture? I'm missing something!

@chris124 One strategy is to enable the diatom's competitor's (algae, coral, et al) you could try adding an additional feeding per day, for example. (BTW, your PO4 is prolly fine where it is, but don't let it go up too much if you start feeding more. Don't let it drop too much lower than it is either, IMO ....but that's not likely to be a problem.)

If you didn't want to increase feeding, I suspect that even if all you did was to divide and space your current feeding quantity into multiple per day, across the whole day, it would help.

Dosing nitrates is another option than can make sense:
Potassium nitrate (Spectracide stump remover) dosing steps

 

[mcarroll]

Look at your sand bed too.

Stick your finger, or something, down in the sand in a few select locations and swirl around.

If you see anything but bright-white aragonite sediment come up – anything brown, tan, beige, green, etc, etc, etc – then your sand bed may be loaded with nutrients that water changes are providing the algae some micronutrient (possible Fe) to bloom on.

The easiest solution by far is to siphon out the sand bed completely and either leave the tank bare-bottomed or replace it with fresh, new sand. Don't bother trying to clean it or treat it – that's all more expensive, more work and less certain.

Places to check are around the bases of rocks and in the sand underneath your power heads and/or return flow.

 

[brandon429]

Post #4 above shows the growth as a jpeg but could vary among browsers

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-of...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
reworked tanks, disassembly cleaning collection

 

[mcarroll]

Interesting....photos must have been added later or something else happened. Literally wasn't there earlier, but I see em now. Weird!

 

[chris124]

How old is this tank?

What is its nutrient history like?



Do you see PO4 spike when you take GFO offline? How much GFO do you have to use to maintain current levels?

If you really think it's the RODI, then change your DI filter (or more if you want) to one specially graded for silicate removal, and make new RODI water with that.

If water changes still seem to fuel the diatoms, then I'd say it may only be coincidence. I'd try doing something to increase nitrogen input to the tank – or at least to make it more consistent.


zero nitrates could be fostering them vs allowing the usual "progression" to green algae.

Where did you see a picture? I'm missing something!

@chris124 One strategy is to enable the diatom's competitor's (algae, coral, et al) you could try adding an additional feeding per day, for example. (BTW, your PO4 is prolly fine where it is, but don't let it go up too much if you start feeding more. Don't let it drop too much lower than it is either, IMO ....but that's not likely to be a problem.)

If you didn't want to increase feeding, I suspect that even if all you did was to divide and space your current feeding quantity into multiple per day, across the whole day, it would help.

Dosing nitrates is another option than can make sense:
Potassium nitrate (Spectracide stump remover) dosing steps

The tank is about two and a half years old and I have had this problem for about six months. Im using about one cup of GFO and when its offline I dont see a spike. The main reason I started using GFO was because I read that it can help remove silicate. You said I could try to increase the nitrogen input to the take. What would I need to do to do that? Are you saying the 0 nitrates could also cause this problem? Thanks.