Diatoms or Dino and random silicate level

[Luno]

Ok so my nano is 9 months old, started with dead rock and one very small carefully selected live rock. Never had a Dino or diatom outbreak. 3 months in had a cyano outbreak from my own stupidity and sorted that out.

My tank is heavily stocked for a 15g display 5g rear AIO. But I keep my nutrients stable and low, I like to run a typical low nutrient system, high export high feeding. I had an alk swing from malfunction doser a month or two ago and everything is fine again from that.

Chemistry (mostly on doser for everything so stable as can be)
Alk - between 7.6-7.8
Calcium - 420
Mag - 1400
Nitrate - 1
Phos - 0.02-0.03 (depends is old gfo is)
Salinity - 35ppt
15-20% water change weekly

Sand bed is always pretty dang clean good clean up grew but last week I have seen either diatoms or Dino starting on the sand. After scratching my head I got a salifert silica test only one lfs had. I don't mind salifert tests but I have had them be finicky on gauging the colour chart. After a few tests I've settled on silicate at 1 which is high right? But I don't understand.

So after all that this is a two part question,

1- do I just increase gfo use?
2- my rodi is fine tds - 0, salt mix is fine everything else is fine how is this silicate getting high?

Picture for relevance

 

[rtparty]

I can't help with the silicate issue but a dead rock system with low nutrients is a recipe for a dino outbreak.

Search out the dinoflagellates thread by mcarroll. I don't have a link on my phone. There are a couple easy tests to check for dinos. If you do have dinos, then a toy microscope is $15 and you can ID what strain you're dealing with.

 

[Luno]

I can't help with the silicate issue but a dead rock system with low nutrients is a recipe for a dino outbreak.

Search out the dinoflagellates thread by mcarroll. I don't have a link on my phone. There are a couple easy tests to check for dinos. If you do have dinos, then a toy microscope is $15 and you can ID what strain you're dealing with.

Yeah but at 9 months? I wouldn't have expected it to do it this late?

 

[rtparty]

Yeah but at 9 months? I wouldn't have expected it to do it this late?

Dinos can hit at any time. 9 months or 9 years. If the conditions are right and they have no competition, hello dinos!

 

[Luno]

Dinos can hit at any time. 9 months or 9 years. If the conditions are right and they have no competition, hello dinos!

Yeah right, thanks I didn't think they did. There you go. Also I sort of seed the tanks and never had Dino's before. I use a cup of live sand. A borrowed bit of crushed coral from another tank and a small live rock from another tank. Usually gives me enough biodiversity.

That's gonna be annoying if it is

 

[Tony Thompson]

I agree with rtparty. Before you look for a remedy you must first positively identify the problem. If you can borrow a microscope or just try a cheap one. Its not easy to make the ID but many strains have been documented with pictures so hopefully you will be able to tell.

Accurately identifying the problem is IMO almost impossible from just looking at a picture. You can have a good guess but if you are wrong the treatment can be wholly inappropriate.

I have seen Dinoflagellates that look very similar to Cyano in colour and Brown Dinos that look like Diatoms. because of their photosynthetic properties Dino can also show tiny bubbles appearing and a slimy structure. In two types of Dino I have found both where eradicated using Dino X from Fauna Marin. I removed Rock, Cleaned and syphoned sand during 30% water change, blackout for 72 hours, then start dosing dino X, exactly as per the manufacturer's instructions. Reduced light to full spectrum 6 hours blues max 10 hours.

But like I said, first you need to accurately diagnose.

Looking at your picture, if that is Dino then it is a very small patch. Dino will rapidly spread in a very short time in the right conditions. Maybe monitor the situation before you jump to any drastic measures, just see if it settles down itself. or burns itself out. Sometimes changing your lighting can cause small patches like this to appear and they dissapaer over time.

It really could be a number of other things and not be a real problem at all. Good luck

 

[Luno]

Ok, I'll give this microscope thing a go. Will actually give a friend a call if it's that technical. She's a marine biologist I'm sure she'd be better than me and knowing what it is under a microscope.

Mean time I've changed out my gfo and added more than usual, atleast I know I need to get this silicate lower in the mean time

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Silicate of "1" means what? 1 ppm?

 

[Luno]

Silicate of "1" means what? 1 ppm?

Sorry yeah 1ppm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sorry yeah 1ppm

It's plenty for diatoms to thrive, but not a huge issue. I regularly dosed 200 ug/L Si (~210 ug/L SiO2 = 0.2 ppm SiO2).

Are you using tap water?

 

[Luno]

It's plenty for diatoms to thrive, but not a huge issue. I regularly dosed 200 ug/L Si (~210 ug/L SiO2 = 0.2 ppm SiO2).

Are you using tap water?

under .5 would help if it was diatoms? And nope, rodi and a good one zero tds. I also tested the rodi and it was possibly faintly readable most likely not on the salifert test, color charts and I don't get along either way non existent or less than 0.03

 

[Luno]

I dunno how else I would be increasing silicate randomly though

 

[Luno]

Also it's only on sand, acrylic gets its usual slightly dirty but only need to give it a quick clean off once a week and not the same stuff that's building up on the sand

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Might just be something you need to wait out while the silicate is consumed.

Using more GFO to bind silicate might risk worse problems if phosphate gets too low.

 

[Luno]

Might just be something you need to wait out while the silicate is consumed.

Using more GFO to bind silicate might risk worse problems if phosphate gets too low.

I was a little concerned with lower phosphate too much more so only increase gfo slightly but don't want this to get out of hand either.

Thanks randy, may wait it out and check out this Dino under a microscope stuff in the meantime incase its that too

 

[Luno]

Just an update, I had a friend who's marine biologist look at it under microscope and she's pretty certain it is diatoms not Dino

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just an update, I had a friend who's marine biologist look at it under microscope and she's pretty certain it is diatoms not Dino

Then silicate limitation is the easiest way to deal with them, usually.

Stop silicate getting in, and maybe use GFO if it continues to be a problem long term.

 

[Luno]

Then silicate limitation is the easiest way to deal with them, usually.

Stop silicate getting in, and maybe use GFO if it continues to be a problem long term.

Whille your still floating around randy, I've been testing water change rodi and after mixed for silicate and seems good. Out of curiousity I tested my ato water and it was above 2ppm the highest number on my test. But it's the same rodi that tests undetectable silicate. I use a plastic food grade container for my ato, could it leach silicate somehow?

I'm just swapping it to a different container anyway to see if that helps

 

[Tony Thompson]

Just an update, I had a friend who's marine biologist look at it under microscope and she's pretty certain it is diatoms not Dino

That`s good news @Luno At least now you can take appropriate action. I would much rather have Diatom than a Dino bloom. I actually like Diatoms they are a good food source for my baby shrimps.. Like @Randy Holmes-Farley suggested I think GFO is the easiest way to reduce silicate levels.

I understand your annoyance at where the 1 ppm silicate is coming from. My limited understanding of Marine Chemistry would lead me to believe that 1 ppm is not particularly high. Although Randy would be your best bet to comment on that. Randy has a number of excellent articles all about silica, Just do a google search for advanced aquarist, Randy Holmes-farley, Ph.D.

One source of silicate in your tank can sometimes be attributed to your sand, this depends on the type of sand and a number of other factors, also some foods, some salt mixes and some additives can increase silicate levels. Looking at the levels in your tank, I personally would not be worried, Diatoms very rapidly take up soluble silicate and generally burn themselves out over time. I also believe that trying to eradicate one problem to quickly can lead to opportunity for other problem organisms, so just take thing slowly and make only small changes.

Its a pity I can`t` get my hands on your diatoms, I actually culture them, I love Diatoms, ;Shamefullyembarrased

 

[Luno]

That`s good news @Luno At least now you can take appropriate action. I would much rather have Diatom than a Dino bloom. I actually like Diatoms they are a good food source for my baby shrimps.. Like @Randy Holmes-Farley suggested I think GFO is the easiest way to reduce silicate levels.

I understand your annoyance at where the 1 ppm silicate is coming from. My limited understanding of Marine Chemistry would lead me to believe that 1 ppm is not particularly high. Although Randy would be your best bet to comment on that. Randy has a number of excellent articles all about silica, Just do a google search for advanced aquarist, Randy Holmes-farley, Ph.D.

One source of silicate in your tank can sometimes be attributed to your sand, this depends on the type of sand and a number of other factors, also some foods, some salt mixes and some additives can increase silicate levels. Looking at the levels in your tank, I personally would not be worried, Diatoms very rapidly take up soluble silicate and generally burn themselves out over time. I also believe that trying to eradicate one problem to quickly can lead to opportunity for other problem organisms, so just take thing slowly and make only small changes.

Its a pity I can`t` get my hands on your diatoms, I actually culture them, I love Diatoms, ;Shamefullyembarrased

Yeah, I've learnt the nothing good happens fast in this hobby probably more times than I should have haha! Frustrating when I don't know the source. Previous stuff like cyano I know exactly what I do to deserve it. Just curious as to how the ato water which should have tested non testable reading of silicate same as the rest of my rodi water is testing what I can only assume by the colour is around 4ppm off the scale which ends at 2ppm on the test. (Diluted the water by half and got the 2ppm colour) surely it can't be the plastic container? Maybe something contaminated it?