DIATOMS OR DINOS?

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

Okay so I need this identified as I've tried EVERYTHING to solve it and now I'm thinking that I'm trying to solve the wrong type of algae. My tank is around 6 months old but this brown stuff disappeared after I ran rowaphos in a fluid reactor for 2 weeks. My tank then went fallow for 6 weeks with no algae appearing and then as soon as I put the fish in, It came back!
I dont want to use a fluid reactor again as I've converted it into an algae reactor.

Initially I thought it was diatoms so i:
Dosed nopox
Dosed rowaphos
Dosed phosguard
Set up and chaeto reactor.
Reduced the white light intensity and run time to 10% @ 6 hours.
Changed where I bought RODI (0TDS claimed but not tested)

My parameters are
PH 8.0
Nitrate 0
Calcium 300
Phosphate 0
KH 9
Salinity 1.024

Please someone help me!
If its diatoms I'll be relieved but still need to find out why it wont jog on! Or if its dino it would explain why I cant solve it but need advice on how to approach getting it gone.

Bubblebass · Jan 16, 2020

First impression - looks like diatoms to me. Let me be clear here - not trying to be harsh - you're doing too much! Make a small change and see if that helps. The fact that you added NOPOX, rowaphos and phosguard is a recipe for dinos if you don't have them yet.

Get a kids microscope off of Amazon and verify. It's cheaper than the additives you're ready to buy.

eraserhead187 · Jan 16, 2020

I agree, looks like diatoms. Try not to chase the zero nutrient levels just for the sake of it. There's nothing wrong with having a little nitrate or phosphate in there! From what I have seen, super low levels of those nutrients cause competitors of dinos to starve out and then you will have the much worse problem of a dino explosion, since they can be heterotrophic when they need to be.

BeejReef · Jan 16, 2020

I agree with Bubblebass.

So many things tried that u can't really make a good guess. Also think it looks like diatoms.
Actually, I think the most recent thing you've tried is probably the best step you could have taken. Diatoms love silicates. A below standard water source would be the easiest explanation for how they've endured so long.

U have snails?

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

Yeah totally true mate, I've got a little bit excited and tried to do everything at once. I'm still trying to figure out dosing for a few LPS and a thousand of other questions but thats why this forum is BRILLIANT and I hope me asking on here will stop me trying to dose a product for every problem I encounter lol. I am gonna slow down and concentrate on the algae problem because it's an absolute eyesore!

eraserhead187 · Jan 16, 2020

Djwhitterz said:
Yeah totally true mate, I've got a little bit excited and tried to do everything at once. I'm still trying to figure out dosing for a few LPS and a thousand of other questions but thats why this forum is BRILLIANT and I hope me asking on here will stop me trying to dose a product for every problem I encounter lol. I am gonna slow down and concentrate on the algae problem because it's an absolute eyesore!

How old is your tank right now? (EDIT: Sorry I reread your post and you said it first sentence!) I got gifted a 29 gallon biocube from a guy whose wife passed away and I set that thing up a few months ago. Got the uglies pretty good right now. Cyano, hair algae, the works. Trying to just let it run its course but I hate looking at it like that. My other tank looks great with just a little bit of GHA but it's been going for about 3 years. What kind of situation are you currently in?

I'm the same way, I have trouble not acting right away and wanting to get stuff squared away. I'm probably not patient enough for this hobby but what are you gonna do, right?

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

BeejReef said:
I agree with Bubblebass.

So many things tried that u can't really make a good guess. Also think it looks like diatoms.
Actually, I think the most recent thing you've tried is probably the best step you could have taken. Diatoms love silicates. A below standard water source would be the easiest explanation for how they've endured so long.

U have snails?

Hi mate yeah I've been so Impatient ive just tried to buy any product that could potentially fixed it, then when that treatment e.g. rowaphos didnt work I just bought something else, I've learnt my mistake now, I just need a hand trying to fix it. I use Natural sea water aswell recommended by the guy I buy my corals/fish from. Yes mate I have 2 turbos, and a conch.

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

eraserhead187 said:
How old is your tank right now? (EDIT: Sorry I reread your post and you said it first sentence!) I got gifted a 29 gallon biocube from a guy whose wife passed away and I set that thing up a few months ago. Got the uglies pretty good right now. Cyano, hair algae, the works. Trying to just let it run its course but I hate looking at it like that. My other tank looks great with just a little bit of GHA but it's been going for about 3 years. What kind of situation are you currently in?

I'm the same way, I have trouble not acting right away and wanting to get stuff squared away. I'm probably not patient enough for this hobby but what are you gonna do, right?

Couldnt agree more I'm glad I'm not the only one who's needs every problem fixed YESTERDAY.
I've started with a 75L red sea max nano, I really impressed with the tank itself, But if I'm being honest I wish I hadn't ignored everyone telling me that smaller reef tanks are alot harder! I will be upgrading but for now I'm using this great tank to learn and get as much experience/knowledge as I can.
Sorry, my tanks 6 months old

eraserhead187 · Jan 16, 2020

Djwhitterz said:
Couldnt agree more I'm glad I'm not the only one who's needs every problem fixed YESTERDAY.
I've started with a 75L red sea max nano, I really impressed with the tank itself, But if I'm being honest I wish I hadn't ignored everyone telling me that smaller reef tanks are alot harder! I will be upgrading but for now I'm using this great tank to learn and get as much experience/knowledge as I can.

Yeah man, I'm with you. And you never know, you may end up just being happy with a nano reef. Of course I say I would love a 8000 gallon mega reef, but I don't have that kind of time or money! Heck, the nano reef stuff is expensive enough!

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

Bubblebass said:
First impression - looks like diatoms to me. Let me be clear here - not trying to be harsh - you're doing too much! Make a small change and see if that helps. The fact that you added NOPOX, rowaphos and phosguard is a recipe for dinos if you don't have them yet.

Get a kids microscope off of Amazon and verify. It's cheaper than the additives you're ready to buy.

Totally agree mate I've just bought every product available to try and solve it without actually checking what I thought it was or giving any treatment enough time to work.
If it does turn out to be diatoms any advice on how I should be sorting this properly?

BloopFish · Jan 16, 2020

Generally agree with what everyone is saying here. Diatoms might look like an eyesore, but they are harmless. In addition, this level of diatoms will generally dissipate on its own. Aiming for ultra low nutrient levels will only potentially cause more problems, more harmful algae such as dinoflagellates take over in these environments. I highly recommend to do nothing more than usual and not chase for low nutrients if you are using RODI water with near 0 TDS. The diatoms will go away as silica levels decline - they require silica for their shells and it is often the limiting nutrient in seawater. This is a natural progression of a tank. Your tank does not actually have the stability and maturity of a typical 6 month old tank because it ran fallow for several weeks, it will take some time for it to stabilize back to normal and for diatoms to disappear. You don't need to run phosphate removing media or dose phosphate removing products for the diatoms to go away.

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

eraserhead187 said:
Yeah man, I'm with you. And you never know, you may end up just being happy with a nano reef. Of course I say I would love a 8000 gallon mega reef, but I don't have that kind of time or money! Heck, the nano reef stuff is expensive enough!

Bubblebass said:
First impression - looks like diatoms to me. Let me be clear here - not trying to be harsh - you're doing too much! Make a small change and see if that helps. The fact that you added NOPOX, rowaphos and phosguard is a recipe for dinos if you don't have them yet.

Get a kids microscope off of Amazon and verify. It's cheaper than the additives you're ready to buy.

**SORRY POSTED THIS INSTEAD OF REPLYING**
Yeah totally true mate, I've got a little bit excited and tried to do everything at once. I'm still trying to figure out dosing for a few LPS and a thousand of other questions but thats why this forum is BRILLIANT and I hope me asking on here will stop me trying to dose a product for every problem I encounter lol. I am gonna slow down and concentrate on the algae problem because it's an absolute eyesore!

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

eraserhead187 said:
I agree, looks like diatoms. Try not to chase the zero nutrient levels just for the sake of it. There's nothing wrong with having a little nitrate or phosphate in there! From what I have seen, super low levels of those nutrients cause competitors of dinos to starve out and then you will have the much worse problem of a dino explosion, since they can be heterotrophic when they need to be.

Thanks for the advice, any ideas on how to raise nitrates and phosphate? I've got chaeto growing so would that use up most of the nitrates?

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

BloopFish said:
Generally agree with what everyone is saying here. Diatoms might look like an eyesore, but they are harmless. In addition, this level of diatoms will generally dissipate on its own. Aiming for ultra low nutrient levels will only potentially cause more problems, more harmful algae such as dinoflagellates take over in these environments. I highly recommend to do nothing more than usual and not chase for low nutrients if you are using RODI water with near 0 TDS. The diatoms will go away as silica levels decline - they require silica for their shells and it is often the limiting nutrient in seawater. This is a natural progression of a tank. Your tank does not actually have the stability and maturity of a typical 6 month old tank because it ran fallow for several weeks, it will take some time for it to stabilize back to normal and for diatoms to disappear. You don't need to run phosphate removing media or dose phosphate removing products for the diatoms to go away.

That makes alot of sense thanks for the advice,
Any ideas on how to to raise nitrate? I have a chaeto reactor running. Also do I keep up with the water changes and kalkwasser whilst waiting for the diatoms to die off? I don't want to keep adding anything into the tank if I dont need to.

jim9 · Jan 16, 2020

Diatoms, do nothing, you'll appreciate it in the long run.

BloopFish · Jan 16, 2020

Djwhitterz said:
That makes alot of sense thanks for the advice,
Any ideas on how to to raise nitrate? I have a chaeto reactor running. Also do I keep up with the water changes and kalkwasser whilst waiting for the diatoms to die off? I don't want to keep adding anything into the tank if I dont need to.

Are you asking to raise nitrates in order for the chaeto in the reactor to grow? I would say they you shouldn't really purposely raise nitrates just to make chaeto grow faster. If you were raising it for something like a food source for your actual livestock that would be a different story. You could directly dose with food grade sodium or potassium nitrate or increase feeding or remove some chaeto so that it's absorbing less waste products. Again, I don't really recommend purposely raising nitrates just to make your nitrate remover remove it, it kind of defeats the point.

BloopFish · Jan 16, 2020

jim9 said:
Diatoms, do nothing, you'll appreciate it in the long run.

If anything, they are an essential food source for pods. They are one of the foundations of the ocean - especially in deeper waters where calcification is too costly.

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

BloopFish said:
Are you asking to raise nitrates in order for the chaeto in the reactor to grow? I would say they you shouldn't really purposely raise nitrates just to make chaeto grow faster. If you were raising it for something like a food source for your actual livestock that would be a different story. You could directly dose with food grade sodium or potassium nitrate or increase feeding or remove some chaeto so that it's absorbing less waste products. Again, I don't really recommend purposely raising nitrates just to make your nitrate remover remove it, it kind of defeats the point.

Sorry I what I meant was, I dont want to run nitrates really low now I've learnt that chasing low nutrients can cause even more problems * just read very low nitrate/phosphate *could cause dinos but every bit of research i done when i started out indicated that I needed to remove as much nitrate as possible. Hence why the cheato and the phosguard as well as trying to remove silicates

Djwhitterz · Jan 16, 2020

eraserhead187 said:
Yeah man, I'm with you. And you never know, you may end up just being happy with a nano reef. Of course I say I would love a 8000 gallon mega reef, but I don't have that kind of time or money! Heck, the nano reef stuff is expensive enough!

Yeah mate this time next year I'll have a shark haha

BloopFish · Jan 16, 2020

Djwhitterz said:
Sorry I what I meant was, I dont want to run nitrates really low now I've learnt that chasing low nutrients can cause even more problems * just read they could cause dinos but every bit of research i done when i started out indicated that I needed to remove as much nitrate as possible. Hence why the cheato and the phosguard as well as trying to remove silicates

If you remove your phosguard and stop dosing the phosphate removers, the phosphate should naturally climb up. Nitrates should also naturally climb up as you feed more, unless the algae in the tank is using it all up. And yes, you can keep dosing kalk and do water changes. I think right now you'll see phosphate and nitrates at 0 for a while since the algae is using it up though.