Did I kill my Clownfish?

[Mark Goode]

I started up my tank about six weeks ago, and until Saturday its only occupants were six hermit crabs and about a dozen assorted snails. Saturday I bought my first fish: a juvenile One Spot Foxface and a couple of very small (1/2 - 3/4 inch) Ocellaris Clownfish. I came home yesterday afternoon and one of the clowns was clearly in trouble. I trained my Pentax Papilio binoculars on him, and he was emaciated; he looked like a small piece of paper with a head. Shortly afterwards he expired, and my CUC were on him before I could take any pictures.

If anything I've been overfeeding, trying to get this Foxface to eat (eventually successfully) - with frozen brineshrimp, mysis, flake - and also nori, garlic nori & small algae pellet for the fox. I didn't notice the clown's condition earlier because a)my eyesight isn't what it once was, and b) the danged things never keep still. The other one looks okay so far, I'm going to find some smaller food later today.

My question is: could I have starved a healthy fish to death in a little over 72 hours? I would have thought not, but I've never had a fish that small before.

Thanks.

 

[Dbichler]

Not likely in 72 hours most likely acclimation problems. How big of a tank and parameters would help.

 

[Timfish]

If it was thin it wasn't your fault, it was like that before you got it. It takes weeks for fish to go from healthy body wiehgt to emaciated.

 

[Uncle99]

Doubt it unless it was already on its way out, so to speak.
Hard to say anything without any stats.

 

[Mark Goode]

Not likely in 72 hours most likely acclimation problems. How big of a tank and parameters would help.

Tank's a Red Sea 525, about 120 UK gallons including sump minus rock, so with just three tiddlers it's certainly not overstocked. Ammonia has been zero for about three weeks and nitrate showed saturday morning at about 5ppm. I thought that perhaps a bit low (for the tests I use Salifert kits). My salt is 35 ppt, but the water the fish came in from the LFS was barely 30 IIRC. I dripped 'em all for about 2 1/2 hours. I use RODI and Red Sea blue bucket.

 

[vetteguy53081]

With potential over feeding, I would look at ammonia and nitrate level which may be elevated and have reduced oxygen
As for fish condition, pics under white lighting helpful and upon purchase, ask the store to see fish eat and find out what they’re feeding it
Not unusual for fox face not to eat up front as they are bashful in the beginning
How is the breathing rate of the fish ( normal or labored) and water change may not be a bad idea at this time

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank's a Red Sea 525, about 120 UK gallons including sump minus rock, so with just three tiddlers it's certainly not overstocked. Ammonia has been zero for about three weeks and nitrate showed saturday morning at about 5ppm. I thought that perhaps a bit low (for the tests I use Salifert kits). My salt is 35 ppt, but the water the fish came in from the LFS was barely 30 IIRC. I dripped 'em all for about 2 1/2 hours. I use RODI and Red Sea blue bucket.

Over feeding and zero ammonia is not making sense although not impossible

 

[Mark Goode]

With potential over feeding, I would look at ammonia and nitrate level which may be elevated and have reduced oxygen
As for fish condition, pics under white lighting helpful and upon purchase, ask the store to see fish eat and find out what they’re feeding it
Not unusual for fox face not to eat up front as they are bashful in the beginning
How is the breathing rate of the fish ( normal or labored) and water change may not be a bad idea at this time

Okay, good point. I've just tested, and there's no detectable ammonia (I guess I can thank my Reefmat for that). The remaining clownfish doesn't appear to be breathing fast (but as I said, he won't keep still long enough). The foxface certainly isn't gasping, or showing any obvious signs of distress - he's just pecking at the rocks. My hermits and fire shrimps seem fine too.

 

[Mark Goode]

Over feeding and zero ammonia is not making sense although not impossible

Only over feeding for a couple of days, and I did my best to remove uneaten food - not always possible though. I was conscious I was feeding more than was being eaten, but they're small fish in a fairly big tank. I tried to target feed this foxface with a baster, but when I did that he'd disappear for a couple of hours. Anyway, ammonia still shows good.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay, good point. I've just tested, and there's no detectable ammonia (I guess I can thank my Reefmat for that). The remaining clownfish doesn't appear to be breathing fast (but as I said, he won't keep still long enough). The foxface certainly isn't gasping, or showing any obvious signs of distress - he's just pecking at the rocks. My hermits and fire shrimps seem fine too.

Next feeding try a small portion and place your phone on video mode for about 20 minutes and come back and see if it’s eating when your not at the tank
They’re that timid
You must walk away as they know you’re there

 

[Mark Goode]

Next feeding try a small portion and place your phone on video mode for about 20 minutes and come back and see if it’s eating when your not at the tank
They’re that timid
You must walk away as they know you’re there

Thanks, I'll try that. I never thought I'd be trying to spy on a fish...

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I started up my tank about six weeks ago, and until Saturday its only occupants were six hermit crabs and about a dozen assorted snails. Saturday I bought my first fish: a juvenile One Spot Foxface and a couple of very small (1/2 - 3/4 inch) Ocellaris Clownfish. I came home yesterday afternoon and one of the clowns was clearly in trouble. I trained my Pentax Papilio binoculars on him, and he was emaciated; he looked like a small piece of paper with a head. Shortly afterwards he expired, and my CUC were on him before I could take any pictures.

If anything I've been overfeeding, trying to get this Foxface to eat (eventually successfully) - with frozen brineshrimp, mysis, flake - and also nori, garlic nori & small algae pellet for the fox. I didn't notice the clown's condition earlier because a)my eyesight isn't what it once was, and b) the danged things never keep still. The other one looks okay so far, I'm going to find some smaller food later today.

My question is: could I have starved a healthy fish to death in a little over 72 hours? I would have thought not, but I've never had a fish that small before.

Thanks.

My take on this is: breeders have been selling their tank raised clowns at smaller and smaller sizes in order to minimize their grow out time and maximize their profits. IMO - 1/2" to 3/4" is way too small to sell to the public. At that size, the fish should still be getting Otohime pellets and enriched live baby brine shrimp. With normal aquarium food, they may not be able to swallow it and can starve to death in just a few days.

The other possibility is this: when I hear of a small fish getting "really skinny" after being moved to a new tank, I immediately ask what the store's salinity was compared to your tank's. If the salinity in your tank was vastly higher, then acclimation of small fish is VERY difficult and the fish may have simply dehydrated because it could not balance the changing salt levels.

Jay

 

[Mark Goode]

If the salinity in your tank was vastly higher, then acclimation of small fish is VERY difficult and the fish may have simply dehydrated because it could not balance the changing salt levels.

Jay

Ah, now this makes sense. My tanks is at 35ppt, the water in the bag was barely 30. I dripped for about 2 1/2 hours, but maybe that wasn't enough. Thanks Jay.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ah, now this makes sense. My tanks is at 35ppt, the water in the bag was barely 30. I dripped for about 2 1/2 hours, but maybe that wasn't enough. Thanks Jay.

That may not have been a large enough of a difference to cause death. However, drip acclimating that long needs to have temperature control and aeration. If the salinities were equal after that time, I don't think that was the root problem....I just wanted to rule that out.

Jay

 

[Mark Goode]

That may not have been a large enough of a difference to cause death. However, drip acclimating that long needs to have temperature control and aeration. If the salinities were equal after that time, I don't think that was the root problem....I just wanted to rule that out.

Jay

Oh. Okay, temperature wasn't a problem because we're in the midst of a warm spell, and Saturday afternoon there was only about 1 degree between tank temp and ambient (I use one of those Aqua Medic thermometers that gives both). I didn't know I needed aeration too though. Still, if oxygen was the problem I doubt the unfortunate fish would have lasted 72 hours.

So we're back to starvation then? I'm trying to understand the cause, I don't care if it was my fault or not, so I can avoid it next time.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Oh. Okay, temperature wasn't a problem because we're in the midst of a warm spell, and Saturday afternoon there was only about 1 degree between tank temp and ambient (I use one of those Aqua Medic thermometers that gives both). I didn't know I needed aeration too though. Still, if oxygen was the problem I doubt the unfortunate fish would have lasted 72 hours.

So we're back to starvation then? I'm trying to understand the cause, I don't care if it was my fault or not, so I can avoid it next time.

Yes, back to starvation I think.....

Jay

 

[Mark Goode]

Just to wrap this thread up:

I went to a (different) fish shop and told them the situation with my clownfish, and asked for some good quality food for a tiny clownfish. They sold me a packet of assorted frozen foods, the smallest in the pack being finely chopped razor clam. The little fella seems to like that, so I'm optimistic.

The Foxface has settled, and munches on nori, and pretty much anything else that goes in the tank. He looks good too.