Difference betwenn Bio Block and a Filter mat

[KilianSP]

Like the title, why is a filter mat a no go in saltwater tanks, but those bio bricks are ok?
I get that filtermats produces Nitrates and phosphates, as it is in my tank, but it is free nutrients for my macros.
Filter sump looks like this currently:

Those bio bricks get layed in the sump, so the water is flowing around the brick, not trough, so it is more like a reef rock in the main tank.
but if i put my filtermats also down, so the water isn´t forced to flow trough it, no detritus could get caught in it, so it won´t produce as much no3 and po4 as before, it should be the same as a bio brick or not?

Maybe it doesn´t have the same sqft for bacteria to build up, but it should work the same. i got 45ppi mats, and alot of them.

What do you think about that?
i see no difference in putting reef rocks in the sump, a bio brick, or a filter mat.

 

[Reef.]

Not many people wish to produce nitrates and po4 in their tanks, yes some dose these but in a very controlled way.

 

[KilianSP]

Not many people wish to produce nitrates and po4 in their tanks, yes some dose these but in a very controlled way.

but the bio block does also produces nitrate and phosphat by converting ammonia, like a normal reef rock, so does a filter mat, if positioned the same

 

[gbru316]

Bio bricks are biological filtration media. They rely on surface area and low water flow to create anaerobic pockets for denitrification. You don't want to force water through it at-speed because that defeats the purpose.

Filter mats are mechanical filtration media. Their purpose is to trap detritus and remove it before it starts breaking down. You want adequate water flow to move through it. While there will be some biological activity, that's not the purpose. This is why filter rollers were invented. To get the benefit of mechanical removal without the need to change filtration media every few days to avoid polluting the water with captured organics.

At a high level:
Mechanical media -- cleans water before it's dirty.
Biological media -- cleans water after it's dirty.

Sure, there's some slight overlap. But using filter mats for biological filtration would be like using the handle of a screwdriver as a hammer. Will it work? Probably well enough. But it'll never be as good as a hammer.

 

[KilianSP]

Filter mats are mechanical filtration media

Yes, if i force the water right trough it. But just putting it in the sump and let the water flow around it would make it a biological Filter.

And for the question why. Because i already have the filtermats, which are already breaked in, and if i can lay them down, i can cut lines in them and put my macro algae frags in the Cracks.

 

[gbru316]

Yes, if i force the water right trough it. But just putting it in the sump and let the water flow around it would make it a biological Filter.

And for the question why. Because i already have the filtermats, which are already breaked in, and if i can lay them down, i can cut lines in them and put my macro algae frags in the Cracks.

Filter mats don't get "broken in." They get consumed. And when they are full, they get thrown away you cannot clean the inevitable detritus off of them while they're in the tank.

Use the right tool for the job. It'll work out much better.

 

[KilianSP]

Filter mats don't get "broken in." They get consumed. And when they are full, they get thrown away you cannot clean the inevitable detritus off of them while they're in the tank.

Use the right tool for the job. It'll work out much better.

so i have to throw away the bio bricks also when they are full?
if so, how can i tell they are full?

 

[gbru316]

so i have to throw away the bio bricks also when they are full?
if so, how can i tell they are full?

Bio bricks don't get full. Water shouldn't be forcibly moving through them. It should be moving around them. Biological process that I'm not educated well enough to explain take care of the water movement through them.

You blow the detritus off of them and vacuum it out of your sump.

 

[KilianSP]

Bio bricks don't get full. You blow the detritus off of them and vacuum it out of your sump.

why can´t a bio brick get full but a 45ppi mat can?

 

[MoshJosh]

do you mean the mats are cycled/seeded with bacteria? Were they cycled in a saltwater tank or fresh (you mentioned fresh in your post)?

If it's a matter of bringing over beneficial bacteria, I see no reason you couldn't put them in the sump temporarily to help seed the tank/other bio media.

I think the mats would "work" as bio filtration, however, would not be as efficient. Mats would also lose efficiency overtime as they became "clogged", and in the setup your suggesting you would have to remove/move your macros every time you wanted to clean the mats (depending on the Macro they may grow into the mats)

 

[KilianSP]

do you mean the mats are cycle/seeded with bacteria? Were they cycled in a saltwater tank or fresh (you mentioned fresh in your post)?

If it's a matter of bringing over beneficial bacteria, I see no reason you couldn't put them in the sump temporarily to help seed the tank/other bio media.

I think the mats would "work" as bio filtration, however, would not be as efficient. Mats would also loose efficiency overtime as they became "clogged", and in the setup your suggesting you would have to remove/move your macros every time you wanted to clean the mats (depending on the Macro they may grow into the mats)

The filter mats are in my saltwater tank, and are there for 3 months already, so there are already bacteria on it.
I got a barebottom, so i compensated the missing Sand with filter mats.

I want to reposition them as shown in the second Image, so i can put algae frags in there for the short time till i sale them. And like in the second picture, if the water is floating around and not trough it, it becomes a biological filtration and not only a mechanical.

Since i have a bare bottom, i don't want to **** up the whole system by reposition the filter mats

 

[MoshJosh]

Will it work to filter the tank? probably in some capacity, though depends on the parameters you are looking to hit.

Will it be efficient in comparison to other options? no probably not.

The mat wont be providing great mechanical filtration, as water is not forced though it, i.e. many particles will just float around it. And the mat wont provide great biologic filtration as they have little surface area (compared to other products) and that surface area will be hampered by any detritus the mat does collect (This will be especially true if you don't plan on cleaning them periodically).

"typically" you want to mechanically filter the water (with a sock etc.) prior to the bio filtration as not to clog it up with detritus. Then you can clean/replace the mechanical filtration to remove organics.

I would probably use the mats you have as baffles in the sump, then add new biomedia. The bacteria from the mats will seed the bio media and the mat will act as mechanical filtration.

like at 7 minutes 58 seconds

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

why can´t a bio brick get full but a 45ppi mat can?

Because one is a Mechanical filter used to actually Filter out organics, Before they break down.

The other is Biological and has no ability to filter.


This layed it out perfectly for you.

They are totally different applications.

Bio bricks are biological filtration media. They rely on surface area and low water flow to create anaerobic pockets for denitrification. You don't want to force water through it at-speed because that defeats the purpose.

Filter mats are mechanical filtration media. Their purpose is to trap detritus and remove it before it starts breaking down. You want adequate water flow to move through it. While there will be some biological activity, that's not the purpose. This is why filter rollers were invented. To get the benefit of mechanical removal without the need to change filtration media every few days to avoid polluting the water with captured organics.

At a high level:
Mechanical media -- cleans water before it's dirty.
Biological media -- cleans water after it's dirty.

Sure, there's some slight overlap. But using filter mats for biological filtration would be like using the handle of a screwdriver as a hammer. Will it work? Probably well enough. But it'll never be as good as a hammer.

 

[KilianSP]

ok, then/if i am going to change the mats against a biocube, and it removes nitrates, how much does it remove?
i still need alot of nitrate, already having a hard time keeping phosphate up.

 

[Cell]

Are hard porous surfaces better at colonizing nitrifying bacteria than soft porous surfaces? Not sure, but I would think they would catch detritus more and the pores would clog faster and be tougher to clean.

In this case don't think of the filter mat as a filter, but as surface area for bacteria to colonize.

 

[KilianSP]

Are hard porous surfaces better at colonizing nitrifying bacteria than soft porous surfaces? Not sure, but I would think they would catch detritus more and the pores would clog faster and be tougher to clean.

i got 50 mikron filtersock in front, the mats look pretty good for 3 months. but i think i am switching to bio blocks. then i need another idea ho i mount algae frags in the sump

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

ok, then/if i am going to change the mats against a biocube, and it removes nitrates, how much does it remove?
i still need alot of nitrate, already having a hard time keeping phosphate up.

That is going to be 100% your tank dependent. The variables include biological waste load, nutrient import, and nutrient export.

If you are running a refugium with macroalgae, That's a great way to help regulate. Cutting down on the time you are lighting, your algae will help it reduce less. I'm a bigger fan of feeding more. Stocky fish eating a very diet, and a lot of it. Have a lot more robust immune system and are less prone to aggression. All good things.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

i got 50 mikron filtersock in front, the mats look pretty good for 3 months. but i think i am switching to bio blocks. then i need another idea ho i mount algae frags in the sump

If you are already running filter socks and a skimmer, Plus I'm assuming live rock in your tank, Why are you needing to add more biofiltration?

Your brain may be stuck in a FW filtration loop.

 

[KilianSP]

If you are running a refugium with macroalgae

my whole tank is a refugium and i want to keep some in the sump for reverse dayligthing and frags.
only interested in keeping macros and maybe gorgonian.
i got a heavy bioload, only predator fish, 330 gal, filtering over 50 micron socks, now i recently got a deltec 3000i.
Should i get the recommendent amount of bioblocks, or should i double, since i don´t have substrate and heavy bioload?

 

[KilianSP]

If you are already running filter socks and a skimmer, Plus I'm assuming live rock in your tank, Why are you needing to add more biofiltration?

Your brain may be stuck in a FW filtration loop.

because of the heavy bioload. and i don´t have much reef rocks and not even substrate.
so i got with filtermats for beneficial bacteria and no3 production to feed the algaes.