Difficulty keeping Nitrates above 0

[mwil79]

Hey all,

I run 3 different tanks and this one happens to be a 50g Lowboy Frag tank.
Stock includes 2 RedSea Clowns
1 Springer Damsel
1 Globe Urchin
1 Tuxedo Urchin
Lots of random snails from Turbos to Stomatella


Parameters are as follows
Phosphate .03
Nitrates 0
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1350
Salinity 1.025
Temp 76-78

I have been feeding daily but can't seem to get nutrients up at all. I do not have any major algae issues other than coraline which my urchins are happily chomping on.
I have been attempting to dose ME Coral Liquid Nitrate which has worked well previously (Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate, and Calcium Nitrate). I have also been dosing Aquavitro Fuel in hopes the aminos would boost the nutrients but within a day or so back down to zero.

I am not running any GFO, Purigen or any other media to remove organics.
I currently have my skimmer offline and even attempted to dump the skimmer cup into the tank to hopefully bring organics back up. No go still tested at 0.0
I am using Hanna HR Nitrate Tester and Hanna Phosphate ULR.
I have done a water change maybe twice in the last six months on this tank (5g each time) so I'm not depleting through water changes.
No Refugium as I thought this may have been the cause.

My only thought is that maybe I'm understocked with fish? I am going to head to the LFS and grab a few cheaper fish (Chromis possibly) so they can poop in my tank.


Any other thoughts as to why I would have such diminishing nutrients? I do have 2 full racks of corals (zoas mostly) is it possible they are consuming them that quickly if my fish aren't producing enough waste?

 

[mwil79]

Just to add I don't have too much of an issue with other tanks and nutrients just this one.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Hey all,

I run 3 different tanks and this one happens to be a 50g Lowboy Frag tank.
Stock includes 2 RedSea Clowns
1 Springer Damsel
1 Globe Urchin
1 Tuxedo Urchin
Lots of random snails from Turbos to Stomatella


Parameters are as follows
Phosphate .03
Nitrates 0
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1350
Salinity 1.025
Temp 76-78

I have been feeding daily but can't seem to get nutrients up at all. I do not have any major algae issues other than coraline which my urchins are happily chomping on.
I have been attempting to dose ME Coral Liquid Nitrate which has worked well previously (Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate, and Calcium Nitrate). I have also been dosing Aquavitro Fuel in hopes the aminos would boost the nutrients but within a day or so back down to zero.

I am not running any GFO, Purigen or any other media to remove organics.
I currently have my skimmer offline and even attempted to dump the skimmer cup into the tank to hopefully bring organics back up. No go still tested at 0.0
I am using Hanna HR Nitrate Tester and Hanna Phosphate ULR.
I have done a water change maybe twice in the last six months on this tank (5g each time) so I'm not depleting through water changes.
No Refugium as I thought this may have been the cause.

My only thought is that maybe I'm understocked with fish? I am going to head to the LFS and grab a few cheaper fish (Chromis possibly) so they can poop in my tank.


Any other thoughts as to why I would have such diminishing nutrients? I do have 2 full racks of corals (zoas mostly) is it possible they are consuming them that quickly if my fish aren't producing enough waste?

What is the main filtration in the 50 low boy? Live rock in sump? Bio-Bricks? Etc.?

What corals do you have in there?

Possibly too much filtration. Could also be corals are eating it up as well.

Little more info and there may be a way to get nutrients up without dosing or adding fish.

 

[mwil79]

Main filteration is live rock in the sump and some in the display. Honestly probably no more than 20-25 pounds.

Coral is mainly zoas... probably close to 75-100 frags along with some SPS and LPS as well.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Main filteration is live rock in the sump and some in the display. Honestly probably no more than 20-25 pounds.

Coral is mainly zoas... probably close to 75-100 frags along with some SPS and LPS as well.

If you are softie heavy, adding more fish or dosing nitrate may be the best option.

An alternative may be ammonia dosing. This method will eventually turn into nitrate or will provide an easily consumable N for the corals.

I am not talking about a ton of ammonia being dosed to where it hurts the livestock, but very small amounts dosed throughout the day to the drain section of your sump.

I use this method for my mangrove lagoon. This tank is loaded with macros, but tied into another tank that is full of frags and anemones. I also have a ton of fish in both. It is nutrient limited with no dosing and things seem to do better with ammonia vs nitrates being dosed.

I will tag @Subsea to see if they can provide some more input in how much to dose to get to a certain level or where to start. They have some smaller tanks they do this on, so would be a much better resource for you than me with a 400g system lol.

On a side notes, I use Austins Ammonia by the gallon for my dosing.

 

[mwil79]

If you are softie heavy, adding more fish or dosing nitrate may be the best option.

An alternative may be ammonia dosing. This method will eventually turn into nitrate or will provide an easily consumable N for the corals.

I am not talking about a ton of ammonia being dosed to where it hurts the livestock, but very small amounts dosed throughout the day to the drain section of your sump.

I use this method for my mangrove lagoon. This tank is loaded with macros, but tied into another tank that is full of frags and anemones. I also have a ton of fish in both. It is nutrient limited with no dosing and things seem to do better with ammonia vs nitrates being dosed.

I will tag @Subsea to see if they can provide some more input in how much to dose to get to a certain level or where to start. They have some smaller tanks they do this on, so would be a much better resource for you than me with a 400g system lol.

On a side notes, I use Austins Ammonia by the gallon for my dosing.

Yes I am going to head to the LFS now and grab more fish to see if that helps. Just baffling when you dump Liquid Nitrates in a tank and it's gone within a day or so and no way to export unless its consumed. Appreciate the help.

 

[Chrisv.]

Yes I am going to head to the LFS now and grab more fish to see if that helps. Just baffling when you dump Liquid Nitrates in a tank and it's gone within a day or so and no way to export unless its consumed. Appreciate the help.

I have this same issue in two tanks that each have no filter and no skimmer

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Yes I am going to head to the LFS now and grab more fish to see if that helps. Just baffling when you dump Liquid Nitrates in a tank and it's gone within a day or so and no way to export unless its consumed. Appreciate the help.

I understand completely lol.

My 180 is a nitrate consuming machine. Even being heavily overstocked. It is loaded with never been dry fiji and marshall islands live rocks from years and years ago. I could remove my fuge and skimmer, but they both serve a purpose on that tank besdies nutrient reduction, so I just dose DIY nitrate and phosphate to keep the tank around 10 NO3 and .08-.1 PO4. Not expensive when making DIY, but does require a doser to be effective.

If you have room for fish, then that may be the best way to go about it.

 

[Chrisv.]

I understand completely lol.

My 180 is a nitrate consuming machine. Even being heavily overstocked. It is loaded with never been dry fiji and marshall islands live rocks from years and years ago. I could remove my fuge and skimmer, but they both serve a purpose on that tank besdies nutrient reduction, so I just dose DIY nitrate and phosphate to keep the tank around 10 NO3 and .08-.1 PO4. Not expensive when making DIY, but does require a doser to be effective.

If you have room for fish, then that may be the best way to go about it.

I am also seeing this in live rock tanks-- with essentially no filtration.

 

[codenfx]

I had this same issue but I added more fish and feed a little more than usual and nitrates went back up.

 

[Subsea]

I start out dosing Austin Clear Ammonia at 1ml/10G of system water. I don’t drip, I batch dose in high flow area of display tank. After dosing, I can visible see a feeding response from flower anemones and other softies. Most coral will direct feed ammonia before nitrate.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Hey all,

I run 3 different tanks and this one happens to be a 50g Lowboy Frag tank.
Stock includes 2 RedSea Clowns
1 Springer Damsel
1 Globe Urchin
1 Tuxedo Urchin
Lots of random snails from Turbos to Stomatella


Parameters are as follows
Phosphate .03
Nitrates 0
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1350
Salinity 1.025
Temp 76-78

I have been feeding daily but can't seem to get nutrients up at all. I do not have any major algae issues other than coraline which my urchins are happily chomping on.
I have been attempting to dose ME Coral Liquid Nitrate which has worked well previously (Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate, and Calcium Nitrate). I have also been dosing Aquavitro Fuel in hopes the aminos would boost the nutrients but within a day or so back down to zero.

I am not running any GFO, Purigen or any other media to remove organics.
I currently have my skimmer offline and even attempted to dump the skimmer cup into the tank to hopefully bring organics back up. No go still tested at 0.0
I am using Hanna HR Nitrate Tester and Hanna Phosphate ULR.
I have done a water change maybe twice in the last six months on this tank (5g each time) so I'm not depleting through water changes.
No Refugium as I thought this may have been the cause.

My only thought is that maybe I'm understocked with fish? I am going to head to the LFS and grab a few cheaper fish (Chromis possibly) so they can poop in my tank.


Any other thoughts as to why I would have such diminishing nutrients? I do have 2 full racks of corals (zoas mostly) is it possible they are consuming them that quickly if my fish aren't producing enough waste?

Is coraline growing? Are corals healthy? if so, I wouldn't worry about it

 

[mwil79]

Is coraline growing? Are corals healthy? if so, I wouldn't worry about it

Coraline yes but I'm noticing that zoas are starting to close up and or melt hence my concern. Adding 3 fish for now to see how that works out and I'm going to feed a bit extra.

 

[mwil79]

I start out dosing Austin Clear Ammonia at 1ml/10G of system water. I don’t drip, I batch dose in high flow area of display tank. After dosing, I can visible see a feeding response from flower anemones and other softies. Most coral will direct feed ammonia before nitrate.

How often are you dosing this? Assuming it is not all consumed by corals it should eventually turn into nitrates due to ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate correct?

 

[Subsea]

How often are you dosing this? Assuming it is not all consumed by corals it should eventually turn into nitrates due to ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate correct?

Normally, in my systems, it’s almost all used before bacteria can get to it. I don’t measure nitrates so I don’t know. In macro production tank of Red Ogo, I dose that amount every day when lights come on.

 

[mwil79]

Normally, in my systems, it’s almost all used before bacteria can get to it. I don’t measure nitrates so I don’t know. In macro production tank of Red Ogo, I dose that amount every day when lights come on.

Any reason to spend 20 bucks on the Ammonia you are using vs going to shoprite and getting their brand for 2 dollars?


ShopRite
Ammonia Clear

Details​

64.00 fl oz
SKU / UPC: 041190002948

Ingredients​

Ammonium Hydroxide

 

[mwil79]

@Subsea Just curious if you ever read this? I am getting to the point of needing to dose and definitely don't want to dose Ammonia from shoprite if you think its a bad idea

 

[sixty_reefer]

Are you dosing any coral foods? Are you feeding pellets or frozen? You have a source of carbon in the tank that is depleting your no3, if you can figure out we’re it’s coming from you could balance the tank with less effort

 

[mwil79]

Are you dosing any coral foods?

Yup, even dosing more than the recommended value and still end up with 0.

I previously used RedSea AB+ but switched over to AquaVitro Fuel for the trace elements. I also use Reef Roids (when my phosphates aren't too high) and I just picked up Reef Chilli recently but can't say I've tested to see any increase before or after using it.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Yup, even dosing more than the recommended value and still end up with 0.

I previously used RedSea AB+ but switched over to AquaVitro Fuel for the trace elements. I also use Reef Roids (when my phosphates aren't too high) and I just picked up Reef Chilli recently but can't say I've tested to see any increase before or after using it.

I’ve edited my previous question, you may need to look at what you dosing and feeding to find the source of the problem one of the items will be high in carbon