Dino battle - high phosphate

[Nathan80]

I've been battling dino for 5-6 weeks. I seem to be winning overall - there's very little new each day now, but I've tested water tonight and phos is up at 0.25 which I think is what is stressing some of my corals out.

Approach has been - everything off/out apart from return pump, skimmer (cup is off, its just there to oxygenate), and dosing pump. (Off is UV, Ozone, Algae reactor and phosphate reactor - they're all out of the sump or turned off)

I'm using Dino X, so each evening I go round the tank with a turkey baster, blast everything off the rocks, catch as much as I can with a net and wait for what's left to be sucked into the sump and swap the filter socks out for new/clean, then treat every other day with Dino X as per instructions.

I've not done a water change for about 5 weeks. I don't want to lose the corals, but I don't want to feed the Dino now and set it off again, has anyone got any suggestions to get the Phos down? Can I dose on Nopox to knock it back or put the algae reactor back on without affecting the Dino X treatment?

Other readings are: ammonia 0, nitrate 5, nitrite 24 (please bear in mind that's PPB NOT PPM), KH 10.1, Mg 1480, Ca 488 PH 8.39

Hope someone can help

 

[Brew12]

What is your concern with turning your phosphate reactor back on? I'm assuming it is GFO?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ive had success with PhosphateRX as well as daily dose of Red Sea NO3-PO4X

 

[Brew12]

My only concern with carbon dosing (NoPox) is that it can act as a fuel for dino's.

 

[Nathan80]

Thanks for the reply. I was told to turn the phos reactor off - I was using JBL PhosEx as well as the algae reactor. Can they both go back on safely?

 

[Brew12]

I would put the PhosEx back on and leave the algae reactor off for now. Studies I have seen show that many strains of Dino's thrive in high nitrate, low phosphate environments which is likely why you were advised to take the reactor offline. As long as you keep it above 0.06ppm you should be fine. If nitrates start to rise, you can put your algae reactor back on line.

 

[Nathan80]

Thanks - I'll get a new pack of PhosEx tomorrow and fire the reactor up again

 

[Nathan80]

Quick Q - with the phos being so high is it worth putting 2 reactors on for a couple of days to get it down to about 0.10 and then take one off and monitor? Monitoring isn't an issue - I've got the Hanna testers for pretty much everything so I can check a couple of times a day to make sure I don't drop too low

 

[Nathan80]

I should add - tank is a reefer 250 so it isn't massive!

 

[Brew12]

Quick Q - with the phos being so high is it worth putting 2 reactors on for a couple of days to get it down to about 0.10 and then take one off and monitor? Monitoring isn't an issue - I've got the Hanna testers for pretty much everything so I can check a couple of times a day to make sure I don't drop too low

I have 180g of total water volume and I can strip my PO4 too far with a single reactor. I'd stick with one. Remember, slow changes are almost always best. I also wouldn't be afraid to do a water change. Your coral might appreciate it.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Glad to hear you are winning. Did you think the dinox helped. I’ve been dosing vibrant, supplemented with microbacter and now Tim’s. Still fighting.

@Brew12 should add Dino guru to his tag. I am wondering, is the higher Po4 a good sign. I would expect it to be zero if the Dino and any algae was sucking it up. If phos is showing high does that mean the Dino is not using it and by running the GfO you are pulling it out before it can feed the Dino. (If Dino feds of Po4)

Just a thought. Trying to get on track with you since it sounds like you are winning. How bout a pic? Want to see where you are in your battle, if u want. Thansk

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 should add Dino guru to his tag. I am wondering, is the higher Po4 a good sign. I would expect it to be zero if the Dino and any algae was sucking it up. If phos is showing high does that mean the Dino is not using it and by running the GfO you are pulling it out before it can feed the Dino. (If Dino feds of Po4)

You are being too kind!

When it comes to cyano and dino's I have a philosophy that I don't fight them. I encourage growth of more desirable organisms to take their place. As long as you always have "some" NO3 and PO4 you know they won't be limiting. I know some people see discussions of the Redfield Ratio and cringe but I feel an understanding is helpful. It basically says that plankton in the ocean is 16 parts N to 1 part P. This in and of itself does us no good because we can't measure N and P. However, Cyanobacteria has a "typical" N to P ratio of 5 to 1. This means most strains of cyano thrive when nitrogen is limited because they need less of it. They have also adapted ways of getting nitrogen more efficiently than from NO3. Dino's have a "typical" N to P ratio of 50 to 1 so they thrive in low PO4 environments.

Enough of that... let's just say that as long as you have over 5ppm NO3 and 0.04ppm PO4 neither will be a major factor in determining if alae, dino's, or cyano becomes dominant. The OP meets those requirements but has let them get to the point of doing harm to coral so adjustments are needed.

One of my favorite things to do when dino's flare up in a new tank is to dose live phytoplankton. I also recommend mechanical agitation to break up cyano mats or dino strings. Filter socks are a wonderful thing. I use an MJ1200 pump to blast the problematic bacteria apart. Does wonders.

 

[Nathan80]

Glad to hear you are winning. Did you think the dinox helped. I’ve been dosing vibrant, supplemented with microbacter and now Tim’s. Still fighting.

@Brew12 should add Dino guru to his tag. I am wondering, is the higher Po4 a good sign. I would expect it to be zero if the Dino and any algae was sucking it up. If phos is showing high does that mean the Dino is not using it and by running the GfO you are pulling it out before it can feed the Dino. (If Dino feds of Po4)

Just a thought. Trying to get on track with you since it sounds like you are winning. How bout a pic? Want to see where you are in your battle, if u want. Thansk

As soon as the lights come back on properly I'll take a couple of pics, couple more of the corals arent looking too clever this morning so I'm going to take Brew12's advice, start with a water change and then get some more Phosex. Looking at the tank though, I can't now see any obvious dino starting to grow anywhere overnight...

 

[Nathan80]

Here you go - its a bit red still as Cyano flaired up half way through the Dino treatment (it never rains but it pours!). The Cat in the bottom right and the 2 torches on the right aren't looking too happy - hopefully the water change and Phosex will sort them out. The second pic is the only obvious little bit of dino that I can see in there this morning, so compared to where it was 3-4 weeks ago I'm definitely getting there!

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Looking good. May try your method.

Nice tank.

 

[Salt1972]

Nathan80- Do you mind if I tag along on your thread?

We have a 125g mixed reef 2 years old. We have what appears to be a Dino outbreak. It was stringy and building for a few days and then took over overnight. We brushed / blasted, filtered and changed 30g water. Lights have been off for 30 hours. VERY strange parameters. We test regularly.

1.026 Salinity (Fritz)
77deg
8.0pH
500 Ca
9.0 dKh
5 NO3
.42 PO4
1470 Mag

Our PO4 typically runs .06. What happened? What can we do to combat the dinos?

 

[Brew12]

Nathan80- Do you mind if I tag along on your thread?

We have a 125g mixed reef 2 years old. We have what appears to be a Dino outbreak. It was stringy and building for a few days and then took over overnight. We brushed / blasted, filtered and changed 30g water. Lights have been off for 30 hours. VERY strange parameters. We test regularly.

1.026 Salinity (Fritz)
77deg
8.0pH
500 Ca
9.0 dKh
5 NO3
.42 PO4
1470 Mag

Our PO4 typically runs .06. What happened? What can we do to combat the dinos?

Have you had an algae die off recently?

I would double check that PO4 result with a 2nd test kit if you haven't already, especially if you tested at 0.06 recently.

Otherwise, I would work on getting it back down to it's normal range. That may be all you have to do to get the dino's to go away. It's definitely where I would start.

 

[Nathan80]

My approach hasn't worked and the Dino X has had a negative effect on some of my corals so I'm going with Elegance Corals approach instead - see what happens. Their's reckons it deals with Dino and Cyano which is a bonus for me as I've got both at the minute!

 

[Salt1972]

Have you had an algae die off recently?

I would double check that PO4 result with a 2nd test kit if you haven't already, especially if you tested at 0.06 recently.

Otherwise, I would work on getting it back down to it's normal range. That may be all you have to do to get the dino's to go away. It's definitely where I would start.

Thanks Brew. I changed to fresh GFO yesterday and added ROX carbon. Lights are off.

 

[Salt1972]

Just completed 72 hours in darkness. One question... I didn't black out the refugium. Were we supposed to? We resumed lights today, but pulled the whites out because we read that would help combat dinos. We had refreshed 2 bags of GFO in the overflows 2 days ago. Did 2 tests today (Hanna ULR) and got MUCH better readings .08 & .07. Still a bit high, but much better than the .42 from 2 days ago.

We continue to brush and stir any remaining dinos and replace the filter pads twice daily. Any other recs?