Dino, cyano or brown algae?
- Thread starter actorrs
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
actorrs
Community Member
Yes they do! How do I battle them?
Dinoflagellates depend on specific conditions and nutrients- to fuel their growth. It largely comes down to an imbalance of available nutrients, and a lack of competition. From what we are learning about Dinos, explosive growth seems to be triggered in systems where nitrate and phosphate are extremely low. Excess carbon also seems to be a factor, and these two things are often connected. This is common in reef tanks that are using carbon dosing to lower nitrate and/or phosphate, and when those nutrients get too low, regular algae typically can’t thrive, while Dinos can.
When dealing with Dinos it’s helpful to know what strain(s) you have. There are different treatment options for ostreopsis versus amphidinium or coolia strains of Dinos. There are some helpful resources out there. One of the best I’ve come across was this thread on Reef2Reef:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...
www.reef2reef.com
Winning the battle against Dinos typically requires a multi-pronged approach. Key things to pay attention to:
-Test your phosphate, nitrate, and hopefully carbon as well, identify the limiting nutrients, and restore balance.
-Increase microbial diversity and competition for nutrients and space.
--Reduced photoperiod during treatment (possibly a period of total blackout)
UV sterilization (sometimes)
Nutrient imbalance is the first thing to look for. Zero nitrate and phosphate seem to be a common trigger.
Another resource, and one which hasn’t been very well tracked or understood in our hobby, is organic carbon. We’ve recently begun to understand the link between excess carbon dosing and outbreaks of cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates. With the new N-Doc tests from Triton, we now have visibility into this missing element, along with nitrogen and phosphorus levels. This really is the complete package.
Triton N-DOC Seawater Analysis Test Kits
Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks
www.bulkreefsupply.com
First, if you are nitrate or phosphate limited, raise those levels. A phosphate level of .03ppm to .09ppm would be considered acceptable. Nitrate can be somewhere between 3ppm and 10ppm. This can be achieved through increased feedings, or through the addition of a supplement like NeoPhos or NeoNitro. This will help to shift the nutrient balance back in favor of algae and bacteria. That may seem odd, but a certain amount of algae growth is normal and healthy, and much easier to control with cleanup crew and nutrient regulation.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/neophos-balanced-phosphorus-supplement-brightwell-aquatics.html
NeoNitro - Balanced Nitrogen Supplement
Used in conjunction with MICROBACTER7 and REEF BIOFUEL or KATALYST, enables natural phosphorus uptake to take place in systems with inadequate nitrogen content, lowering phosphate concentration without the use of chemical filtration media and without resorting to polluting the system with...
www.bulkreefsupply.com
You’ll likely want to stop any kind of organic carbon dosing or biopellets you are using on your system. The N-Doc test will help to identify if this is an issue in your tank.
Once nutrients are in line, algae will be one thing that will compete, but you can also introduce more microbial competition by introducing beneficial bacteria. By using something like Dr. Tim’s Re-Fresh and Waste Away, you can introduce beneficial strains that will consume the nutrients that algae and dinos would use, and also make things less hospitable for the Dinos by creating competition for space.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/re-fresh-natural-sparkling-water-for-saltwater-dr-tim-s.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/waste-away-sludge-busing-bacteria-dr-tim-s.html
Dinoflagellates are also photosynthetic, so in addition to addressing nutrients, results can usually be significantly enhanced by a blackout period at the same time. This will often weaken and reduce the Dino population, and allow other things to take over. Once nutrient balance is restored, and conditions are shifted back in favor of the Dinos competitors, you can see results in a matter of days or weeks.
A few other things to consider:
Despite feeling ineffective at first, it can help to regularly siphon out the dino mats in your tank. This reduces their toxic effects in the tank and can help make it easier for other things to take their place. A UV sterilizer can be effective against some dinos such ostreopsis which have a free-swimming stage. If you identify ostreopsis and have room and budget, UV is something to consider.
As of late, there has been some great success by raising the temperature of the aquarium to 82-83° and holding there for at least a week. Some have reported even 2-3 weeks is needed and dosing some of the bacteria products listed above can really help this. The temperature increase has been hit or miss however. I still find it worthwhile to try before spending hundreds of dollars on other remedies. Just go SUPER slow when raising and lowering temperature. 1 degree every few days is usually pretty safe. If you see signs of stress in corals or fish, stop immediately and drop it back down.
attiland
2500 Club Member
In short get a positive ID before stat to experiment on your tank. A used microscope first £30.Dinoflagellates depend on specific conditions and nutrients- to fuel their growth. It largely comes down to an imbalance of available nutrients, and a lack of competition. From what we are learning about Dinos, explosive growth seems to be triggered in systems where nitrate and phosphate are extremely low. Excess carbon also seems to be a factor, and these two things are often connected. This is common in reef tanks that are using carbon dosing to lower nitrate and/or phosphate, and when those nutrients get too low, regular algae typically can’t thrive, while Dinos can.
When dealing with Dinos it’s helpful to know what strain(s) you have. There are different treatment options for ostreopsis versus amphidinium or coolia strains of Dinos. There are some helpful resources out there. One of the best I’ve come across was this thread on Reef2Reef:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...
Winning the battle against Dinos typically requires a multi-pronged approach. Key things to pay attention to:
-Test your phosphate, nitrate, and hopefully carbon as well, identify the limiting nutrients, and restore balance.
-Increase microbial diversity and competition for nutrients and space.
--Reduced photoperiod during treatment (possibly a period of total blackout)
UV sterilization (sometimes)
Nutrient imbalance is the first thing to look for. Zero nitrate and phosphate seem to be a common trigger.
Another resource, and one which hasn’t been very well tracked or understood in our hobby, is organic carbon. We’ve recently begun to understand the link between excess carbon dosing and outbreaks of cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates. With the new N-Doc tests from Triton, we now have visibility into this missing element, along with nitrogen and phosphorus levels. This really is the complete package.
Triton N-DOC Seawater Analysis Test Kits
Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks
First, if you are nitrate or phosphate limited, raise those levels. A phosphate level of .03ppm to .09ppm would be considered acceptable. Nitrate can be somewhere between 3ppm and 10ppm. This can be achieved through increased feedings, or through the addition of a supplement like NeoPhos or NeoNitro. This will help to shift the nutrient balance back in favor of algae and bacteria. That may seem odd, but a certain amount of algae growth is normal and healthy, and much easier to control with cleanup crew and nutrient regulation.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/neophos-balanced-phosphorus-supplement-brightwell-aquatics.html
NeoNitro - Balanced Nitrogen Supplement
Used in conjunction with MICROBACTER7 and REEF BIOFUEL or KATALYST, enables natural phosphorus uptake to take place in systems with inadequate nitrogen content, lowering phosphate concentration without the use of chemical filtration media and without resorting to polluting the system with...
You’ll likely want to stop any kind of organic carbon dosing or biopellets you are using on your system. The N-Doc test will help to identify if this is an issue in your tank.
Once nutrients are in line, algae will be one thing that will compete, but you can also introduce more microbial competition by introducing beneficial bacteria. By using something like Dr. Tim’s Re-Fresh and Waste Away, you can introduce beneficial strains that will consume the nutrients that algae and dinos would use, and also make things less hospitable for the Dinos by creating competition for space.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/re-fresh-natural-sparkling-water-for-saltwater-dr-tim-s.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/waste-away-sludge-busing-bacteria-dr-tim-s.html
Dinoflagellates are also photosynthetic, so in addition to addressing nutrients, results can usually be significantly enhanced by a blackout period at the same time. This will often weaken and reduce the Dino population, and allow other things to take over. Once nutrient balance is restored, and conditions are shifted back in favor of the Dinos competitors, you can see results in a matter of days or weeks.
A few other things to consider:
Despite feeling ineffective at first, it can help to regularly siphon out the dino mats in your tank. This reduces their toxic effects in the tank and can help make it easier for other things to take their place. A UV sterilizer can be effective against some dinos such ostreopsis which have a free-swimming stage. If you identify ostreopsis and have room and budget, UV is something to consider.
As of late, there has been some great success by raising the temperature of the aquarium to 82-83° and holding there for at least a week. Some have reported even 2-3 weeks is needed and dosing some of the bacteria products listed above can really help this. The temperature increase has been hit or miss however. I still find it worthwhile to try before spending hundreds of dollars on other remedies. Just go SUPER slow when raising and lowering temperature. 1 degree every few days is usually pretty safe. If you see signs of stress in corals or fish, stop immediately and drop it back down.
hyeclass
Well-Known Member
attiland
2500 Club Member
You won’t get positive ID without microscope. You have Dinos.
hyeclass
Well-Known Member
Thank you having said that what you think I should do black out for 4 days or
Blackout will only work on certain Dinos. That’s why a microscope is important.
Kind of looks like ostreopsis. Imo a microscope isn't going to do much here. Id spend on a uv sterilizer instead. Its the only thing that works on 90% of dinos. I bought a microscope to id my dinos which looked just like those. But I only used it 3 times and now its collecting dust. I tried it all. The best thing was a uv.
attiland
2500 Club Member
I strongly suggest to ID them. You may have more than 1 type and may come handy later too.
as per blackout itself usually doesn’t work. Types go to water column blackout combined with rightly sized and plumed UV can do a huge dent in the population. As a genetic advise use carbon as many are toxic to corals even fish or snails etc.
Most treatment starts with elevated nitrates and phosphates to give advantage for competition.
And from this point treatment can differ.
no treatment is sort term. Doing the wrong one risk the corals and fish and extend the problem by weeks or even months.
attiland
2500 Club Member
UV works on the lot of them but even you had a positive ID.
I had two types of one of them UV doesn’t help
hyeclass
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
attiland
2500 Club Member
I don’t run algae scrubber but read others say cyano as well as Dino can take hold on it too.
I have watched your video like 10 times now and couldn’t decide weather you have Dinos or Dinos +cyano. I have a feeling you may have both. They are often go hand in hand. They did in mine anyway. Some of the clamps have the colour of cyano I think.
try to get a microscope
uv would hep both having said that I couldn’t illuminate cyano with UV only.
I have watched your video like 10 times now and couldn’t decide weather you have Dinos or Dinos +cyano. I have a feeling you may have both. They are often go hand in hand. They did in mine anyway. Some of the clamps have the colour of cyano I think.
try to get a microscope
uv would hep both having said that I couldn’t illuminate cyano with UV only.
