Dino identification help

[kkircher]

I got this stuff growing everywhere now. Goes away at night, comes on strong with lights. I thought it might be cyano, but it is really more rust color. It is in the sandbed some, but creases of the rocks and blows off rather easy. The odd thing, I seem to have some GHA in other places that are acting very differently then this. Looks greenish color and more stereotypical.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Nitrates 20ppm
Phosphates (kind of high) .23ppm

Here is a photo from my microscope.

 

[kkircher]

Here are some tank photos with all whites on.

 

[taricha]

Prorocentrum dinos. The brown hairy stuff is likely dinos covering GHA.
That you notice a day- night difference suggests UV will have a big effect.

Was that microscope shot from the sand or the brown hair on the rocks?

 

[kkircher]

Prorocentrum dinos. The brown hairy stuff is likely dinos covering GHA.
That you notice a day- night difference suggests UV will have a big effect.

Was that microscope shot from the sand or the brown hair on the rocks?

Thank you very much. I grabbed it from the rocks.

so excuse my ignorance but I thought dinos was generally from too little phosphate and nitrates and gha was from too much of one. I am surprised to have both.

a few questions:
1. Are the dinos because my phosphates are out of ration and too high compared to nitrates? I am trying to find the cause so I can prevent.

2. I have a UV which I have been attempting to use but it’s intake is from the sump where I don’t see any. Do I need to move the intake to the display?

3. Will peroxide dosing help with this, Dino-x? What is best course to stop them and then prevent.

my tank is just under a year old and I have fought some kind of algae, ugly phase, Dino the entire time. It has never looked nice since the second month.

 

[taricha]

sigh.
Your post is an excellent demonstration of how little we know - we are still kind of fumbling in the dark on dinoflagellates.
Our standard answers account for maybe 80-90% of outbreaks.

1. Are the dinos because my phosphates are out of ration and too high compared to nitrates? I am trying to find the cause so I can prevent.

not really. You could run heavy GFO and drop the PO4 to zero. dinos wouldn't budge. no simple answers here.

2. I have a UV which I have been attempting to use but it’s intake is from the sump where I don’t see any. Do I need to move the intake to the display?

That's probably telling you something. Have the UV pull from the display. Like I said, I think you'll see big improvements.

3. Will peroxide dosing help with this, Dino-x? What is best course to stop them and then prevent.

peroxide and dino-x are hit and miss. Also, Dino-x has a decent number of reports of coral loss. But so do toxic dinos, and we have a hard time keeping all corals happy and healthy during dino treatments. Would we lose more or less corals if we just hit toxic dinos with algacides? I don't know.

All that pessimism aside, check the main dino thread. Lots of helpful people there.
I wouldn't move your nutrients around too much. I'd adjust the UV, look at all my inputs, do some manual exports, and see how things go.

 

[kkircher]

sigh.
Your post is an excellent demonstration of how little we know - we are still kind of fumbling in the dark on dinoflagellates.
Our standard answers account for maybe 80-90% of outbreaks.


not really. You could run heavy GFO and drop the PO4 to zero. dinos wouldn't budge. no simple answers here.


That's probably telling you something. Have the UV pull from the display. Like I said, I think you'll see big improvements.



peroxide and dino-x are hit and miss. Also, Dino-x has a decent number of reports of coral loss. But so do toxic dinos, and we have a hard time keeping all corals happy and healthy during dino treatments. Would we lose more or less corals if we just hit toxic dinos with algacides? I don't know.

All that pessimism aside, check the main dino thread. Lots of helpful people there.
I wouldn't move your nutrients around too much. I'd adjust the UV, look at all my inputs, do some manual exports, and see how things go.

Thank you very much for your time. I will move the UV to display and see how that goes for starters. I don't think my UV is strong enough so I may need to up that game to make an impact.

 

[zalick]

Thank you very much for your time. I will move the UV to display and see how that goes for starters. I don't think my UV is strong enough so I may need to up that game to make an impact.

100% agree with @taricha

I think UV will work. Siphon as much as possible first.

what size UV?

 

[kkircher]

sigh.
Your post is an excellent demonstration of how little we know - we are still kind of fumbling in the dark on dinoflagellates.
Our standard answers account for maybe 80-90% of outbreaks.


not really. You could run heavy GFO and drop the PO4 to zero. dinos wouldn't budge. no simple answers here.


That's probably telling you something. Have the UV pull from the display. Like I said, I think you'll see big improvements.



peroxide and dino-x are hit and miss. Also, Dino-x has a decent number of reports of coral loss. But so do toxic dinos, and we have a hard time keeping all corals happy and healthy during dino treatments. Would we lose more or less corals if we just hit toxic dinos with algacides? I don't know.

All that pessimism aside, check the main dino thread. Lots of helpful people there.
I wouldn't move your nutrients around too much. I'd adjust the UV, look at all my inputs, do some manual exports, and see how things go.

Do you have a recommended UV manufacturer? I have a 200g DT with total water volume 240. I don't think the UV I have is pulling it's weight and the ones I am seeing on Marine Depot and BRS seem to really have mixed reviews.

 

[kkircher]

100% agree with @taricha

I think UV will work. Siphon as much as possible first.

what size UV?

I apologize, I didn't see you asking what size UV. Of course I am asking for advise on the very thing you are asking about..haha.

Anyways, I have a Coralife Turbo Twist 6x which states for up to 250 gallons.

I feel this thing may not actually be nearly enough or really isn't that great. If you have any recommendations, I would love to hear it. Spending this much money on this tank in less then a year, just to have dinos make it look crap and possibly affect the livestock is heart breaking.

 

[dwest]

You will want at least 70 watts of UV plumbed directly into and back to display. UV manufacturers information doesn’t play well with dinos. You’ll want 2 or 3 tank volumes per hour running through it. Slow and strong.

 

[kkircher]

You will want at least 70 watts of UV plumbed directly into and back to display. UV manufacturers information doesn’t play well with dinos. You’ll want 2 or 3 tank volumes per hour running through it. Slow and strong.

Thanks for the information. Do you have any manufacturer recommendations?

 

[TheDuude]

I had some success sturring up my dinos daily and siphoning as much as I could through a overpowered UV.

Also, How old is the tank. Seems to me there is some correlation between lack of biodiversity and Dinos.

 

[kkircher]

I had some success sturring up my dinos daily and siphoning as much as I could through a overpowered UV.

Also, How old is the tank. Seems to me there is some correlation between lack of biodiversity and Dinos.

I am currently stirring the sand bed spots, and blowing off rocks, once a day. Tank was filled last last July. I just looking for a good UV to replace what I have.

 

[zalick]

Thanks for the information. Do you have any manufacturer recommendations?

What’s your budget?

I use aquaUV but the prices have really skyrocketed recently.

Emperor and Pentair are also good. Probably other more affordable brands too that I’m unaware of.

 

[kkircher]

What’s your budget?

I use aquaUV but the prices have really skyrocketed recently.

Emperor and Pentair are also good. Probably other more affordable brands too that I’m unaware of.

To be honest I have already leveraged the kids college on my setup...why not kill the retirement too....haha

I want to get something that will get the job done. I currently am starting to lose some coral, the tank looks like crap and after investing a large fortune on this thing, I need to get it fixed.

 

[zalick]

To be honest I have already leveraged the kids college on my setup...why not kill the retirement too....haha

I want to get something that will get the job done. I currently am starting to lose some coral, the tank looks like crap and after investing a large fortune on this thing, I need to get it fixed.

The higher the watts the better. I had success with a 54w aquaUV running about 750gph plumbed straight to my 300g DT.

the key is the exposure time first, if it’s not long enough exposure to kill it you might as well not do it. The next is the flow, needs to be enough flow that what you are trying to kill doesn’t replicate faster than the kill rate.

 

[zalick]

@kkircher - you could ask around in your local reefing community and see if anyone could lone or rent to you. If you were near me I have an extra 57w you could use.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I kno it’s a huge tank but I think introducing a ton of competitors / reducing lights / raising nutrients works to speed up the cycle of the Dino’s to where other algae takes over. I had bad Dino’s and what worked was putting a ton of macro algae into the display / microbacter 7 / neonitro dosing / feeding a lot coupled with a 3 day blackout + UV in display. It seems counter productive with nitrate dosing and microbacter 7 but it worked for me

 

[kkircher]

@kkircher - you could ask around in your local reefing community and see if anyone could lone or rent to you. If you were near me I have an extra 57w you could use.

Thank you.

Unfortunately there isn’t a big community. I have only found 2 others on reef2reef and we don’t even have an lfs. I buy all online. I just heard A guy opened a coral farm but I think it is an online store only. So I am at the mercy of the inter webs.

 

[kkircher]

I kno it’s a huge tank but I think introducing a ton of competitors / reducing lights / raising nutrients works to speed up the cycle of the Dino’s to where other algae takes over. I had bad Dino’s and what worked was putting a ton of macro algae into the display / microbacter 7 / neonitro dosing / feeding a lot coupled with a 3 day blackout + UV in display. It seems counter productive with nitrate dosing and microbacter 7 but it worked for me

The strange thing, I also have gha growing same time. It’s a mess. I have chaeto growing in a pax bellum, and have tried the blackout. I have not tried dosing bacteria yet. Since it does move to the water column at night I can see how the UV would be a good choice. I just need to order a better one and get it plumbed even if temporarily to start.