Dino microscopy ID please. Oval.

[Miami Reef]

These were jiggly on the sandbed.

 

[Miami Reef]

Guys. I found something crazy in my tank.

I see a WORM in the midst of Dinoflagellates!

PS: I figured out what type of dinos I have: Amphidinium.


Are these “worms” consuming the dinos, or are the Dino’s consuming the worms? Or do they have no relationship with each other? These worms/dinos in the video were collected at the cable of my powerhead.

 

[Miami Reef]

@taricha

 

[dwest]

Nematodes. I saw lots of those worms with my amphidinium and any other sample. I believe they are not associated with dinos.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[Miami Reef]

Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Thanks for the program. Quick question: you said don’t feed coral foods, but isn’t it true that I need to maintain higher phosphates? They bottomed out at 00 and I had to feed and feed just to get it at 0.02. Today it’s at 0.05. I had to use reef roids.

Did I make my situation worse? I think my tank looks brown now.

I’m going to follow your advice.

 

[Miami Reef]

Hydrogen peroxide is cool, but does it actually solve the problem? The issue is the tank is out of balance. Using peroxide will kill most algaes and possibly bacteria. I have my suspicions that it is a temporary solution.

I’m not trying to disregard your experience. I only want to understand.

I think @Randy Holmes-Farley made a post about hydrogen peroxide and his opinion in 2014.

 

[Miami Reef]

hydrogen peroxide dosing

how do I go about hydrogen peroxide dosing for algae? do you just dump it in the water or you spot treat them?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[taricha]

@taricha

The pics in the first post are coolia dinos.
The video is of a nematode that is thrashing around and is entangling some of the dino slime, so it looks like thr worm and the Dinos are interacting when it's mostly just the worm thrashing around in the dino slime. It is also true that the dinos toxic mucous can in trap and kill some organisms thus releasing nutrients to fuel the bloom further. However nematodes are about the toughest thing around, so I wouldn't worry about them too much.

 

[Miami Reef]

The pics in the first post are coolia dinos.
The video is of a nematode that is thrashing around and is entangling some of the dino slime, so it looks like thr worm and the Dinos are interacting when it's mostly just the worm thrashing around in the dino slime. It is also true that the dinos toxic mucous can in trap and kill some organisms thus releasing nutrients to fuel the bloom further. However nematodes are about the toughest thing around, so I wouldn't worry about them too much.

Can I ask a few questions @taricha ?

How do you treat coolia dinos?

Are they less or more toxic than amphinidinium?

You said Dino’s kill other organisms to gain more nutrients to grow…am I making this worse by increasing nutrients?

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Nematodes. I saw lots of those worms with my amphidinium and any other sample. I believe they are not associated with dinos.

Nematodes are everywhere. Mostly harmless. One of my professors in college who was an invertebrate guy said if you got rid of everything on earth except nematodes, all rock, metals, water, matter, etc., the nematodes would create a shell of pretty much everything that went missing.

 

[taricha]

Can I ask a few questions @taricha ?

How do you treat coolia dinos?

Are they less or more toxic than amphinidinium?

You said Dino’s kill other organisms to gain more nutrients to grow…am I making this worse by increasing nutrients?

They are somewhat susceptible to UV.
Frankly, I think most coolia outbreaks will get replaced by a different outbreak. Mine became amphidinium
Coolia are more toxic than amphidinium.

Maybe a better way to think about dino mucus trapping and killing other organisms in relation to nutrients - is that it is one pathway to explain how pushing water nutrients really low doesn't starve out dinos. They have another source of nutrients from dead organisms.

 

[Miami Reef]

They are somewhat susceptible to UV.
Frankly, I think most coolia outbreaks will get replaced by a different outbreak. Mine became amphidinium
Coolia are more toxic than amphidinium.

Maybe a better way to think about dino mucus trapping and killing other organisms in relation to nutrients - is that it is one pathway to explain how pushing water nutrients really low doesn't starve out dinos. They have another source of nutrients from dead organisms.

This is what I did: 1 day black out with h202 dosing.

Next day lights on. Tank was cloudy.

Change to 5 micron filter socks, replaced activated carbon, turned on skimmer, dosed KZ coral snow (CACO3)

Phosphates reached 0.2 that same day. I tested again a few hours later and phosphates are at 0.1.

I dosed a lot of silicates and bumped my magnesium from 1200 to 1360

 

[takitaj]

TLDR; Try Reef Brite's Reef Rock Enhance for a more natural & effective method. It worked for myself and I tried everything. H2O2 kills everything, not just Dinos. Keep PO4 NO3 up and balanced (P ~0.1 & N ~5-10).

Dinos will bloom when other organisms get starved out due to sub-optimal conditions and the good stuff dies off. That's when Dinos can thrive unchallenged. There's a constant microscopic battle going on in our tanks. It's our job to keep those conditions optimal for the good guys so they have a chance to prevail.

I personally feel the H2O2 is detrimental to the good stuff too as it's indiscriminate in what it kills. It may kill the Dinos but it also kills the "good" stuff so once you stop, the battle resumes and Dinos have a good change to come back. They did for me.

If you want to try something more natural I had excellent results with Reef Brite's Reef Rock Enhance. The stuff is like magic. lol I had Amphidinium, which is one of the more difficult to defeat, and I tried everything including high doses of H2O2, Vibrant, etc., etc.. RRE is what finally kicked it along with all the other uglies I was dealing with (brown crud, cyano).

Within a couple weeks my rocks and sand were clear and all the clogged up pores in the rock were clear and everything began to balance out. The normal green micro algae (and Diatoms from prior silicate dosing) started to appear on the sand & glass and everything looked so much happier (including me! ). It was funny how excited I was to see green stuff starting to grow in there. lol Dinos lingered in a few spots but eventually lost the battle and completely disappeared.

You'll want to watch nutrients closely and keep them up but balanced (PO4 ~0.1 & NO3 ~5-10). Dose PO4 & NO3 if you need to but be careful not to get them too high because when the Dinos die back they can release some of their nutrients and you'll have a host of other issues like GHA. Don't let them get any lower either so the good stuff has a chance to regain the advantage. Keep the balance! Water changes will get them back down and back in balance if needed.

Good luck!