Dino questions

[Gobi-Wan]

Hi all, I know I am going to be repeating questions that have been asked before but I cant wrap my head around dinos. What makes absolutely no sense to be is why some people say they're caused by no nutrients in the tank. How can something be taking over in the absence of nutrients? It has to be consuming something...
My nitrates were 5 and phosphate was .05 last time I tested. I'm guessing its lower now since I started running GFO about a month ago and my last test was a few weeks ago. I do not have an accurate way of testing phosphate as my API kit was showing 0 even when my phosphates were very high, as in .25 high. I will include a crappy photo that's the best I could do with my Amazon toy microscope. To me it looks very similar to the type that was destroyed by a uv sterilizer in the recent popular dino thread in this forum section. Can someone confirm and maybe try to help me understand what's going on with nutrients? What is my best option for treatment?

 

[Gobi-Wan]

Here's a better one maybe. They aren't really moving though, shouldn't they be moving?

 

[dwest]

Hi all, I know I am going to be repeating questions that have been asked before but I cant wrap my head around dinos. What makes absolutely no sense to be is why some people say they're caused by no nutrients in the tank. How can something be taking over in the absence of nutrients? It has to be consuming something...
My nitrates were 5 and phosphate was .05 last time I tested. I'm guessing its lower now since I started running GFO about a month ago and my last test was a few weeks ago. I do not have an accurate way of testing phosphate as my API kit was showing 0 even when my phosphates were very high, as in .25 high. I will include a crappy photo that's the best I could do with my Amazon toy microscope. To me it looks very similar to the type that was destroyed by a uv sterilizer in the recent popular dino thread in this forum section. Can someone confirm and maybe try to help me understand what's going on with nutrients? What is my best option for treatment?

Based on the sesame seed shape I think you have ostreopsis. Maybe @reeferfoxx can verify this. Check out the link below to see if you agree.

http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

You had a great question about dinos. I think of dinos as organisms that can live in high or extremely low (and everywhere in between) nutrient conditions. They are survivors throughout the course of history. So when there are no nutrients, algaes and other dino competitors cannot survive, but dinos can. If you want to understand this st a higher level, you should read mcarroll big thread, at least the start.

I would not run GFO, but run GAC to remove toxins, and run UV in the tank itself, assuming ostreopsis.

 

[saltyhog]

I may be all wrong about this, if so one of the experts on this subject I'm sure will correct me.

It's all about competition. It's not that they necessarily thrive in low nutrients(they seem to thrive in all levels), it's that they have a great competitive advantage in low nutrient situations. Their competition is hindered.

A couple of examples. In humans if you take an antibiotic one of the possible complications is something called Clostridium difficile. It's a very nasty bug and may live in many peoples gut without problem for a long time. The antibiotics don't affect it but kill it's competition. Voila, over whelming C. diff infection.

Another example. Imagine we went to your home county and killed every fox, coyote, bobcat, feral house cat, hawk, owl, eagle, etc. Pretty soon your county would be over run with mice/rats and other similar critters. It's all about balance.

 

[Gobi-Wan]

Based on the sesame seed shape I think you have ostreopsis. Maybe @reeferfoxx can verify this. Check out the link below to see if you agree.

http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

You had a great question about dinos. I think of dinos as organisms that can live in high or extremely low (and everywhere in between) nutrient conditions. They are survivors throughout the course of history. So when there are no nutrients, algaes and other dino competitors cannot survive, but dinos can. If you want to understand this st a higher level, you should read mcarroll big thread, at least the start.

I would not run GFO, but run GAC to remove toxins, and run UV in the tank itself, assuming ostreopsis.

Thank you for your response. I agree that it looks the most like ostreopsis, other than they aren't moving like in the video. Looks more like that to me than the other 2 though. I started the GFO because of out-of-control phosphates and hair algae. Now the hair algae is gone and my phosphates are super low after about a month of gfo. I suppose I'll replace it with carbon for now and see how fast the phosphate goes back up. Will it be sufficient to run a sterilizer off of the return pump from the sump or so I need to rig it up to pull water from the display?

 

[dwest]

Thank you for your response. I agree that it looks the most like ostreopsis, other than they aren't moving like in the video. Looks more like that to me than the other 2 though. I started the GFO because of out-of-control phosphates and hair algae. Now the hair algae is gone and my phosphates are super low after about a month of gfo. I suppose I'll replace it with carbon for now and see how fast the phosphate goes back up. Will it be sufficient to run a sterilizer off of the return pump from the sump or so I need to rig it up to pull water from the display?

It depends on many factors, but we have had the best success running DT back to DT, at least until things are under control. You will want a UV that is at least as large as 1 watt per every 3 gallons of system water. Then, flow about 1-3 tank volumes per hour through your unit. The one and only @saltyhog was the latest success story.

 

[dwest]

Hi all, I know I am going to be repeating questions that have been asked before but I cant wrap my head around dinos. What makes absolutely no sense to be is why some people say they're caused by no nutrients in the tank. How can something be taking over in the absence of nutrients? It has to be consuming something...
My nitrates were 5 and phosphate was .05 last time I tested. I'm guessing its lower now since I started running GFO about a month ago and my last test was a few weeks ago. I do not have an accurate way of testing phosphate as my API kit was showing 0 even when my phosphates were very high, as in .25 high. I will include a crappy photo that's the best I could do with my Amazon toy microscope. To me it looks very similar to the type that was destroyed by a uv sterilizer in the recent popular dino thread in this forum section. Can someone confirm and maybe try to help me understand what's going on with nutrients? What is my best option for treatment?

Yes, BTW, I have no idea why they are not moving...

 

[Neoalchemist]

Yes, BTW, I have no idea why they are not moving...

They could simply have gotten cold while you were getting them under the scope. But they dont always move alot.

 

[mtdaly85]

Those look just like the ostreopsis I had in my tank. I blasted them off the rocks, ran a 55w UV sterilizer with a 300 gph pump (directly in the display) and they were 95% gone overnight, 99% gone in a couple days, and completely eradicated in just under a week. The UV was around $80, pump was $40, and the 3/4" tubing was around $40. Best $160 I've ever spent. Saved my tank from complete destruction. I did, however, lose about $1,000 in coral frags, but I'm slowing rebuilding.

Make sure you run a high quality carbon as you are killing off the dinos as the toxins they release are NASTY. Do you smell a low tide / sewage smell by your tank?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Phosphate block in some cases causes good bacteria to die. Other organisms take over.
http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Dinos are weird and don’t eat like we think and likely don’t need the Po4
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00388169

https://www.e-algae.org/m/journal/view.php?number=2830

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00397166

http://www.massey.ac.nz/~ychisti/HaAlgae.pdf

Somthing many also forget as they redfield ratio themselves is the carbon. For dinos , organic and inorganic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022098195002022
This is why increasing PH and reducing co2 can also work and “nutrients” may not be the problem.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/

 

[Zó179]

in my 30 gallon nano i was running a overpowered skimmer + growing cheato like crazy + running phosguard through a reactor. my nitrates and phosphates were undetectable. eventually dinos started growing i tried blackouts, dosing hydrogen peroxide, dosing bacteria to outcompete it. nothing worked at all. then i did a waterchage siphoning as much dino mucus as possible = BIGGEST MISTAKE. dinos took over my whole tank. half of my reef was straight mucus the other half saltwater. the dinos even thrived in my sump even after i removed the cheato grow light. i was ready to call it quits and restart my tank with new rock, coral and even fish. it was unbelievable. then i decided to just purchase DINO X. i followed dino x instruction 100% removing everything from the sump minus the skimmer. dino x in conjunction with a blackout has work. im extremely satisfied with the product. im now dosing nitrates and phosphates to maintain nitates above 5ppm and phosphates between .2 to .5ppm. i removed the cheato and phosguard. i dont know if it will work for you since ever system is diff but i say try it. the last thing i wanted to do was spend 30 buck on dino x but im sure glad i did.

i had the same organisms under a microscope as you do btw