Dinoflagelates. A disruptive treatment

[Miami Reef]

@Beuchat

Do you think this could work for chrysophytes?

 

[Beuchat Verified Sponsor]

@Beuchat

Do you think this could work for chrysophytes?

Hi, We have not tested for chrysophytes.

I know it does not work for cyanobacteria but not sure about chrysophytes

 

[FishPham]

I guess it's time to invest in a microscope.. Been gone for 2 weeks for work and came home to a tank overran by dinos. Sigh..

 

[Boosterman]

Hi Dr. Jim, the DIY organic carbon additive is made of:

225 ml of vodka (40%)
25 ml of white vinegar
1 tea spoon of brown sugar

Dose is 0,5 ml/100 liters of aquarium water per day

Hope it helps

Hi @Beuchat
I'm about to try this method using the DIY organic carbon additive.
I understand week 1 dose is 0.5ml/100 liters. What about week 2? Is it 1ml/100 liters? Week 3 is 1.5ml/100 liters?

 

[Beuchat Verified Sponsor]

Hi @Beuchat
I'm about to try this method using the DIY organic carbon additive.
I understand week 1 dose is 0.5ml/100 liters. What about week 2? Is it 1ml/100 liters? Week 3 is 1.5ml/100 liters?

yes, That is correct

 

[Boosterman]

yes, That is correct

Thanks. I started dosing the DIY solution today. Leaving some photos for reference.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks. I started dosing the DIY solution today. Leaving some photos for reference.

Following!

 

[TexasReefer82]

Hi Dr. Jim, the DIY organic carbon additive is made of:

225 ml of vodka (40%)
25 ml of white vinegar
1 tea spoon of brown sugar

Dose is 0,5 ml/100 liters of aquarium water per day

Hope it helps

Is there perhaps a recipe to augment RedSea NO/POx with sugar? Or to make a sugar solution to be used in addition to NO/POx?

 

[TexasReefer82]

Hi Dr.Jim

I am glad to know your dinos has backed off. I believe it is good idea to have a long term maintenance dosis, of course, not as much as during treatment. This continuous dosing will balance the nutrient recycling mechanism of your tank from algae to bacteria.

This is a very interesting article and it makes me think of a new concept...

Just as we continuously dose to our tanks all the necessary building blocks to grow coral (Calcium, carbonates, major elements, trace metals, amino acids, etc) perhaps we should also continuously dose all the necessary building blocks to grow a healthy bacterial biofilm (Organic carbon source, nitrate and phosphate).

We've always taken the growth of bacteria for granted but perhaps we need to regard a healthy bacterial biofilm to be an active feature of our tanks (even though we can't see it) and treat it, feed it, and maintain it as such.

Some aquarists have an excess of nitrate and phosphate but I have to dose nitrate daily and phosphate occasionally to maintain measurable levels. I suspect that one or both of these bottoming out along with an in-tank cipro treatment may have been the cause of my LCA.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Hi Dr. Jim, the DIY organic carbon additive is made of:

225 ml of vodka (40%)
25 ml of white vinegar
1 tea spoon of brown sugar

Dose is 0,5 ml/100 liters of aquarium water per day

Hope it helps

Is there a reason that brown super is specified instead of white sugar?

 

[Miami Reef]

Is there a reason that brown super is specified instead of white sugar?

I’m not sure, but it does kind of bother me that they are using sucrose instead of glucose, which is sold as dextrose.

Brown sugar is not glucose.

 

[OrchidMiss]

@leelread through the thread.
Lots of different info that may help you!

 

[TexasReefer82]

I’m not sure, but it does kind of bother me that they are using sucrose instead of glucose, which is sold as dextrose.

Brown sugar is not glucose.

I'm sure they used sucrose because it's easily available at the grocery store or people already have it in their kitchens.

Do you think using glucose is superior to sucrose?

 

[Miami Reef]

I'm sure they used sucrose because it's easily available at the grocery store or people already have it in their kitchens.

Do you think using glucose is superior to sucrose?

Well, I’m not sure if either is superior, but using glucose is solely because Xepta NP OUT uses it in their recipe and it apparently works better than NOPOX (found by the OP in this thread).

I just don’t really like how glucose and sucrose is being used interchangeably, since they aren’t the same.

Here‘a quotes from this thread:

Hi,

Just to provide an update. It appears that carbon sources containing glucose (sugar) are more effective. We have found faster recession of dinos using traditional vodka+vinegar+sugar and Xepta NP, than Red Sea NO3 : PO4-X.

​

Hi Dr. Jim, the DIY organic carbon additive is made of:

225 ml of vodka (40%)
25 ml of white vinegar
1 tea spoon of brown sugar

Dose is 0,5 ml/100 liters of aquarium water per day

Hope it helps

 

[TexasReefer82]

Well, I’m not sure if either is superior, but using glucose is solely because Xepta NP OUT uses it in their recipe and it apparently works better than NOPOX (found by the OP in this thread).

I just don’t really like how glucose and sucrose is being used interchangeably, since they aren’t the same.

Here‘a quotes from this thread:

Ahhh gotcha, yep I hear that. Maybe it's just the use of a saccharide in general that's the magic ingredient? Perhaps fructose even helps...

To be clear for everyone else, sucrose (table sugar) is a disaccharide composed of a glucose and fructose (both monosaccharides) bonded together.

 

[Rigoberto]

This is a very interesting article and it makes me think of a new concept...

Just as we continuously dose to our tanks all the necessary building blocks to grow coral (Calcium, carbonates, major elements, trace metals, amino acids, etc) perhaps we should also continuously dose all the necessary building blocks to grow a healthy bacterial biofilm (Organic carbon source, nitrate and phosphate).

We've always taken the growth of bacteria for granted but perhaps we need to regard a healthy bacterial biofilm to be an active feature of our tanks (even though we can't see it) and treat it, feed it, and maintain it as such.

Some aquarists have an excess of nitrate and phosphate but I have to dose nitrate daily and phosphate occasionally to maintain measurable levels. I suspect that one or both of these bottoming out along with an in-tank cipro treatment may have been the cause of my LCA.

My intuition is that this is generally correct - and it is the basis I pursued in my most recent tank - build the pyramid from the bottom. Selected bacteria + microfauna and their food supplies so that they out compete the nasties when the nasties arrive.

The other thing I would add to this convo is that tests for nutrients are lagging indicators in the case where all the little people are consuming these nutrients.
You want the "right" little people (i.e. invisible) to consume what is present to exclude the "bad" little people so that they never get a foothold. Regaining control once the bad guys establish a pipe into the nutrient stream seems to be a much more complicated endeavor.

 

[xDMike]

This might have actually worked for me against lca dinos. I dosed the DIY recipe with the brown sugar first thing in the morning, and I would also dose microbacter 7 about an hour later. My sand bed when from fully covered to clear in about a week. I did also add some phyto every other day.

While doing this I had to dose alot of nitrate and phosphate to keep the numbers up.

 

[Boosterman]

This might have actually worked for me against lca dinos. I dosed the DIY recipe with the brown sugar first thing in the morning, and I would also dose microbacter 7 about an hour later. My sand bed when from fully covered to clear in about a week. I did also add some phyto every other day.

While doing this I had to dose alot of nitrate and phosphate to keep the numbers up.

How much nitrate and phosphate did you aim for? I'm currently on day 3 and my nitrate went from 10 to 2 and phosphate from 0.08 to 0.01.

 

[xDMike]

How much nitrate and phosphate did you aim for? I'm currently on day 3 and my nitrate went from 10 to 2 and phosphate from 0.08 to 0.01.

I was dosing about 2ppm of nitrate every day to keep it around 8ppm, and about .04ppm of phosphate to keep it above 0.

 

[Beuchat Verified Sponsor]

This is a very interesting article and it makes me think of a new concept...

Just as we continuously dose to our tanks all the necessary building blocks to grow coral (Calcium, carbonates, major elements, trace metals, amino acids, etc) perhaps we should also continuously dose all the necessary building blocks to grow a healthy bacterial biofilm (Organic carbon source, nitrate and phosphate).

We've always taken the growth of bacteria for granted but perhaps we need to regard a healthy bacterial biofilm to be an active feature of our tanks (even though we can't see it) and treat it, feed it, and maintain it as such.

Some aquarists have an excess of nitrate and phosphate but I have to dose nitrate daily and phosphate occasionally to maintain measurable levels. I suspect that one or both of these bottoming out along with an in-tank cipro treatment may have been the cause of my LCA.

Yes, I agree. If we keep a continuous dosing of organic carbon in the system, we will be balancing the recycling of inorganic nutrients from algae to bacteria, as we don't want photosynthetic organisms to take advantage and create pests