Dinoflagellate Microscope ID

[Aquaman6410]

Okay, so I tried my best to use a really old microscope to get an ID and these pictures are the best I got. 50x seemed to with the best. I couldn't get anything to focus at 100x but I'm no pro. These guys were definitely moving and was kinda cool to see but now hopefully someone can ID them in these horrible photos so I can work on getting my tank back. I can always try to get more but I was getting a headache trying lol!

Thanks all!

 

[Aquaman6410]

Also, if it helps, they seem to be toxic. I've lost 9 out of 10 trochus snails. A fang blenny also passed and I think its because he used to pick out the rocks and scavenge.

 

[taricha]

this is an amphidinium. Toxins, a curved "beak" on the front, and fast swimming likely indicate it's a small cell amphidinium type.

 

[Aquaman6410]

Dang it... I feel like from what I read, they are one of the hard ones to get rid of. Any tips? Its a 5 month old 75 gallon tank with 4 fish and no coral. Started with dry rock and used 3 different bacteria boosters. All my pods seemed to have died back.

My tank has also been hazy since they have gotten bad. I'm guessing they are causing a bloom. I was going to get a uv sterilizer but I'm seeing that won't work for these guys. Raising my phosphate and nitrates just seems to fuel them and they've gotten way worse since elevating those levels.

 

[taricha]

Dang it... I feel like from what I read, they are one of the hard ones to get rid of. Any tips? Its a 5 month old 75 gallon tank with 4 fish and no coral. Started with dry rock and used 3 different bacteria boosters. All my pods seemed to have died back.

My tank has also been hazy since they have gotten bad. I'm guessing they are causing a bloom. I was going to get a uv sterilizer but I'm seeing that won't work for these guys. Raising my phosphate and nitrates just seems to fuel them and they've gotten way worse since elevating those levels.

The small cell type actually do go in the water and can be targeted with UV. The haziness is probably related.

 

[Aquaman6410]

The small cell type actually do go in the water and can be targeted with UV. The haziness is probably related.

Awesome, I'm going to try the sterilizer along with other methods I've been reading in the big thread about treating amphidinium. I have some spongexcel on the way and I'm trying to add pods, bacteria, and phyto as well.

 

[m0jjen]

Awesome, I'm going to try the sterilizer along with other methods I've been reading in the big thread about treating amphidinium. I have some spongexcel on the way and I'm trying to add pods, bacteria, and phyto as well.

Had small celled dinos since february. tested pretty much everything suggested. I just got rid of them in about 1 week.

Sunday 14/7:
* Removed all the hairalgae and dinos i could reach. Spent pretty much the whole day doing it and ended with bastering all the rock.
* Cold turkey pulled 3 litre of siprax.

Monday 15/7:
* Started to add alot of nitrifying bacteria - been dosing daily since.
* Changed light schedule from WWC to extended corallab sps ab+. 9 hours of full light and 1.5 hour ramp on both start and end.

Tuesday 16/7:
* Added a "freshly cycled" dead rock. Not pukani or anything. Just dead rock i pulled and never washed or anything and cycled in my new shallow reef using red sea reef mature and like 0.1 kilo of established live rock. Its riddled with pods and had a solid green film algae.
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria

Wednesday 17/7:
* Started to get a solid green film algae in the whole tank and hairalgae started to turn green from brown (dinos)
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria

Thursday 18/7:
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria
* Green film grows back afew times aday, scrape 3x
* Hairalgae green, no signs of brown in it

Friday 19/7:
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria
* Green film grows back afew times aday, scrape 3x
* Hairalgae started to recede

Saturday 20/7:
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria
* Green film grows back afew times aday, scrape 3x

Sunday 21/7:
* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria
* Added more freshly cycled live rock
* Green film grows back afew times aday, scrape 3x

Monday 22/7:

* Add alot of nitrifying bacteria
* Green film grows back afew times aday, scrape 3x
* Hairalgae pretty much gone. Just short stumps left

Products used:

Fauna Marin rebiotic
Aquaforest bio S

Filtration:

Red sea carbon in a reactor
Skimmer
Clarisea mechanical filter

 

[Alex Costa]

Add alot of nitrifying bacteria

How much is "a lot"?
The recomended dosage is 1 drop/100liters.

 

[m0jjen]

How much is "a lot"?
The recomended dosage is 1 drop/100liters.

Ill illustrate:

To bit a tad more serious, i dosed FM rebiotic according to instructions and Bio S at 1.5x recommendation

 

[Alex Costa]

Thanks!
I'll give it a try....

 

[Aquaman6410]

Okay, so an update. I've been dosing phosphates and nitrates still and dinos have been getting bad. I continued on anyway. My tank smells so bad from the dinos. They have such a distinctive smell. I got a 24w UV sterilizer yesterday to try out temporarily. Nothing fancy, just one of those Green Killing Machine ones. I put it in last night and turned it on. Then, I used my turkey baster to blow off a bunch of dinos on the rock and the thick mats of it on the sand bed. I left it alone from there letting the filter sock and skimmer catch whatever and letting the UV work. This was around 7pm. Before bed, I remembered we had a short power outage that morning and my radion light schedule seemed out of sync. So I just turned them off since there is no coral and I can just fix the schedule tomorrow.

I came home from work at 530 and looked the tank almost 24 hours later and I have no idea what is going on now. The tank is SUPER cloudy. I can see the back wall a bit from the front, but I can't really see my vortech on the side if I look through the glass from the other side and the tank is 3ft long. Its like an intense bacterial bloom at least in looks. I don't know if its good/bad or even if its bacteria or dinos. The fish seem fine. But through all this, I looked at the tank and it still has the intense dino smell but... The sand looks much cleaner and actually white-ish. The rocks also look better. I knew I'm not seeing things because my wife walked by it, knowing well enough how brown it was, and she said "Wow, why is it so cloudy? Hey! This looks the cleanest I've seen in a while".

I don't know what the cloudyness is from but perhaps I'm starting to win with UV. I may just keep the lights off since it can't hurt I guess. 3 day blackouts have not fixed it in the past and the tank was wrapped so I don't think its the lights off fixing it, but it can't hurt. I think the UV might be helping but who knows just yet. I have silica supplement coming soon but I might just hold off on it until I see how this plays out over the next few days.

 

[taricha]

24 hr blackout plus UV would force a lot of cells into the water and into UV.
The cleaner sand and cloudier water are probably flip sides of the same movement of cells out of surfaces into water.

 

[bar|none]

Im in the same boat and just turned on my UV today. Starting blackout tonight.

 

[Aquaman6410]

Let me give an update. UV has been running almost a week and cloudyness is gone. During the past 5 days, I did end up siphoning all of the sand and passing the output water through a 10 micron sock. The sand looked nice and white after. I blew as much of the stuff off the rocks as I could. Phosphates finally got up to .13ppm a day or so ago. Finally not instantly disappearing after dosing. I put the lights back on yesterday and today the sand is still white. The rocks still have some brown patches on them I will need to scrub off. The back wall has some brown on it as well to scrub off. The UV is still in the tank and is ugly but hey it's working. I may keep it going another week. I'm scared to stop using it but I don't think it will fit or work as effectively in the sump.

Skimmer is pulling out less and doesn't smell as bad. Water smells better and not like dinos. I'm just scared of it coming back! I added a few corals from my other tank to it and I'm going to keep adding pods and phyto. Not sure if the UV is killing that stuff off but I'm trying everything. I'm going to test phosphates and nitrates every few days at this point and dose if needed. Currently at .11ppm of phosphate and 10ppm of nitrate in the tank.

This makes me consider plumbing a permanent more high grade UV in one day when I have money to burn.

I'm extremely happy but super nervous about the next few days and weeks. Let's hope its gone!

 

[bar|none]

I am using this UV unit. "Aquashield 10W UV Sterilizer/Clarifier - Universal"
One on the far right in video. It has its own pump and no plumbing needed.

While it's only 10w, another forum member reported that it killed his dinos completely after doing a blackout. It's very easy to use anywhere and I stuck it in my reefer 170 sump in the area where the filter sock goes. So far after a few hours, water is is clear and a majority of dinos are gone after turkey basting them into the water column, and I haven't even done the blackout yet. That will be for eradication. I think this UV unit may stay. Will report back.

edit: The one thing I did not experience was what you are calling the Dino smell.. I do not have that. Is it possibly a result of another water parameter? But I did not ID my dinos under a microscope.

 

[fafafooey]

I am using this UV unit. "Aquashield 10W UV Sterilizer/Clarifier - Universal"

Happy to see a good experience with this UV. I have an IM Fusion 40 tank, so the midsize model is a direct drop-in my tank. It's undersized according to the guidelines on this forum for eradicating dino's, but I was going to give it a shot anyway for the price.

I definitely have ostreopsis, which go into the water column at night. Between hanging some filter floss in front of my gyre pump and this UV I'm hoping I can do some serious damage to the dino army while I get the nutrients in check.

 

[taricha]

The one thing I did not experience was what you are calling the Dino smell.. I do not have that. Is it possibly a result of another water parameter? But I did not ID my dinos under a microscope.

Some do and some don't. There is an occasionally reported "dino smell" and it seems to be reported with toxic blooms.
Are we smelling the actual toxins?
Or is it like many smells, it's the associated bacteria activity we smell?

 

[Alex Costa]

25/07:

Since then I'm dosing 3 vials og biodigest, daily.
20 ml of vinegar, daily.
50 ml of Vibrant, every other day.

After a week, this is how it looks now:

PS: It's a 2000 liters system.
After some bad time fighting dinoflagelates (confirmed by microscope analyses) last year, I decided to remove the sandbed this year.
After 3 months without sand, i put back this portion, in a corner of the tank. After a month, the brown/red patches start to show up. This time I didn't analise it in the microscope so, I can't assure that's dino.

 

[bar|none]

New sand could be diatoms instead.

Fyi i did 36hr blackout and a small 10w innovative marine uv unit which i still keep on. Dinos were gone after blackout. Didnt need to dose anything but i did not id what type of dinos i had.

 

[Aquaman6410]

Well, another update. I'm slowly losing again. UV still running but they are coming back. The sand keeps showing them so I have to keep siphoning it through a 10 micron sock and blowing it off rocks. Phosphates last checked today were .15ppm and nitrates around 10ppm. I keep adding pods and phyto. I can't seem to win. Its hard not to get discouraged and just want to quit. Considering silica dosing next because I have no idea. I just want to beat them. Maybe diatoms can beat them out. I don't seem to have any hair algae or anything else triggering.

Ugh. Not the update I wanted. Continuing UV and still using skimmer as well hoping to skim out dinos.