Dinoflagellates ID, please help. Micro photo.

[FelipeCarv]

Hi,

I've been lurking for ages watching this forum. I was postponing getting a microscope, so I've treated my tank for cyano, checked for diatoms, etc. Finally got one and those are my pictures. I bought an 36W UV filter for my 80 gallon that is on it's way. My parameters were always low, nitrates and phosphates, actually zero most of the time. My corals are still ok except from some zoas and a GSP not opening. I'm in the process of raising my Nitrates and phosphates.

My plan is to when the UV arrives, I will start a 2 days blackout.

Last resource, I will dose H2O2...

One question that I have, should I get rid of chaeto? After my lights are on for a while, a thick brown mat with bubbles form over the chaeto. Photo attached.

 

[Idoc]

It looks like it could be Coolia type of dinos, but Chrysophytes are also round like that but really tiny. It's hard to tell by scale...I like pics with the microscope "pointer" to give me some size comparison, lol. Do they move around at all or just sit still? A video might help. Coolia move very quick short bursts; Chrysophytes don't move at all. Coolia has an outside armor which appears to be present in that high mag picture.

You need to get the nutrients up and stable in the tank, though. Start dosing No3 (I used Loudwolf Sodium Nitrate) to get around 5-10ppm and Phosphate (I used Seachem Flourish Phosphorous) to around 0.05-.10ppm. This will allow other algaes to start forming and growing for competition. Setup your UV to pull from the DT and return back to the DT...if dinos, the blackout will force them into the water column...I'd do at least a 3-5 day blackout, though.

As for the chaeto...it is probably counter productive at this time. You want nutrients in the tank right now and it's taking them away quickly...it appears to be working too well right now. In the future, you might want to experiment with how much chaeto is needed in your system to keep your nutrients at your desired levels and remove any excess. Right now, I'd remove it and see how the no3/po4 responds...maybe you don't need to dose those afterall. I didn't have chaeto when I was battling dinos, so I'm not sure how this responds in the system with dino treatments.

Let's see if @taricha will take a quick look just to confirm if coolia dinos vs chrysophytes vs some other crazy thing...

 

[FelipeCarv]

It looks like it could be Coolia type of dinos, but Chrysophytes are also round like that but really tiny. It's hard to tell by scale...I like pics with the microscope "pointer" to give me some size comparison, lol. Do they move around at all or just sit still? A video might help. Coolia move very quick short bursts; Chrysophytes don't move at all. Coolia has an outside armor which appears to be present in that high mag picture.

You need to get the nutrients up and stable in the tank, though. Start dosing No3 (I used Loudwolf Sodium Nitrate) to get around 5-10ppm and Phosphate (I used Seachem Flourish Phosphorous) to around 0.05-.10ppm. This will allow other algaes to start forming and growing for competition. Setup your UV to pull from the DT and return back to the DT...if dinos, the blackout will force them into the water column...I'd do at least a 3-5 day blackout, though.

As for the chaeto...it is probably counter productive at this time. You want nutrients in the tank right now and it's taking them away quickly...it appears to be working too well right now. In the future, you might want to experiment with how much chaeto is needed in your system to keep your nutrients at your desired levels and remove any excess. Right now, I'd remove it and see how the no3/po4 responds...maybe you don't need to dose those afterall. I didn't have chaeto when I was battling dinos, so I'm not sure how this responds in the system with dino treatments.

Let's see if @taricha will take a quick look just to confirm if coolia dinos vs chrysophytes vs some other crazy thing...

Thanks for your reply. Yes they move and quickly. They dont seem to be attached like by an anchor. They move erractly. Trying to upload the video.

 

[FelipeCarv]

 

[NS Mike D]

you can cut back the cheato light schedule way back to slow down it's metabolism without having to get rid of it.

 

[FelipeCarv]

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[FelipeCarv]

you can cut back the cheato light schedule way back to slow down it's metabolism without having to get rid of it.

Yes, thanks for your input. I turned it down already from 16h to 4h. Hope that it will solve.

 

[Idoc]

They do seem like almost perfect circles with erratic movement...I think they are Coolia.

 

[FelipeCarv]

They do seem like almost perfect circles with erratic movement...I think they are Coolia.

Any specific strategy against Coolia?
Thanks again.

 

[Idoc]

Any specific strategy against Coolia?
Thanks again.

Same attack as with Ostreopsis...which luckily seems to be the easiest to clear out. You need to force them into the water column so your UV will wipe them out. They will probably always be in your tank, but hopefully at a manageable level once your nutrients get controlled. Attempt to keep your nitrates around 5-10ppm and phosphate 0.05-0.1ppm. With the cheato, you'll need to monitor that regularly to ensure the chaeto isn't bottoming out those nutrients. Run a dirty tank (elevated nutrients without water changes) for a few months...as long as your corals will be ok with it.

But first, get the UV hooked up to pull from the DT and return back to the DT with a low flow. I use a Maxijet 1200 pump giving around 400gph feeding a Aqua UV 57w system...manufacturer calls for 1000gph, but I'm running it slow to maximize contact time with the UV. This wiped out my dinos quickly! I have been dino free (can't see them but I know they are still there but controlled) for several months and I'm still keeping the UV running in the DT 24hr per day.

Don't be surprised if the elevated nutrients cause a cyano bloom. I still have that occurring but don't mind...that is easy to clear out with a little siphoning.

 

[taricha]

Agreed. The shape/ movement looks more like coolia than anything else.

 

[FelipeCarv]

I'm gonna keep you guys posted.

I installed my UV today, however I couldn't stand doing nothing, so I was dosing one biodigest a day (dosed 4 already) and started H2O2 1ml per 10 gallons, a total of 8ml per day (2 doses already).

All my zoas and GSP opened and I can see a good progress. I can say 50% improvement or more. I will continue with the peroxide treatment along with my UV.
Since I have 3 tangs and the UV will help them as well.

Thanks. Felipe.

 

[FelipeCarv]

Hi Everyone,

After 3 weeks I still have some brown patches on my substrate. Nothing on rock. They dont form as many bubbles as before. Please find a video attached. All corals are fine. Including zoas that were previously disturbed. Are those still Dinos? I dont have the same bubbles and they dont move fast as before...

In addition to that my back glass have some algae growing. They seem dark green and with filaments. Derbesia? I attached 1 picture and a microscope view as well.

I have done 7 doses of peroxide, put an UV filter and my nitrates and phosphates are still zero. Salifert tests.

Thanks again

 

[taricha]

Switched kinds. these are now amphidinium

 

[FelipeCarv]

Switched kinds. these are now amphidinium

Gonna check the specific thread then...amazing creatures...

 

[FelipeCarv]

Since they are not toxic and are not bothering the corals. I will try more to manage them. Do they vanish during the night as well? Cause my sand stays clear during the night, if they do not go to the water column I was imagining that the sand would stay dirty...

 

[FelipeCarv]

I got myself an answer from the main amphidinium thread from you:

"Yep. Amphidinium hug sand so tightly that I suspect they are protected from oxidation and other chemical attacks by the organics that surround them. The fact that at night they move down slightly into the sand, means they can even increase their protection, and might do that in response to chemicals"

I'm going to the other thread...thanks @taricha