dinoflagellates or Cyano ?

[reefkeeperCOL]

a few weeks ago my sand and rocks start to cover with this thin film of brown slime.

I started to make some water changes weekly , but it get worst everyday, some soft corals like GSP and zoas keep close.


maybe this video help to idenfy:

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think it’s cycnao.
I don’t the cyano is making the corals mad , I’d wager what’s making the cyano is making the corals mad.

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

only soft corals are affected, all SPS looks good, should I make more water changes ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

only soft corals are affected, all SPS looks good, should I make more water changes ?

Not if it’s making it worse.
I’d look at rodi
Look at foods , Esp coral foods
Aminos
Bacterial additives.

Are you using a probiotic salt ?

 

[dansreef]

The video you posted shows small oblong or roundish organisms (yellowish) moving indepedently of each other. I do not see long filiminatous materials which you would with cyano. You look to have Dinoflagalates.

If you are running ultra low nutrients, let them rise. Bring your Phosphates (>.03) up as well as your nitrates (10-20). You want to start encouraging algae and other materials like Cyano to grow and outcompete the dinoflagalates. These Dinos are much harder of the nuisance to get rid of. Once you see green and the cyano start growing, add in pods a vareity of pods and CUC. You want to have algae and bacteria outcompete the dinos... as well as increase your biodiversity of the tank's micro organisms.

It will get uglier before it gets better. I prefer a more natural approach...a dirty water approach to solving for Dinos. Others will suggest all sorts of black regimines, chemicals.... etc... This is what I have found to be most effective for my tanks. I fought a very long drawn out battle with Dinos and until I went dirty was losing. I now keep my Phosphates around .05 and nitrates above 10. It works for me. I also run an algae scrubber on my tank... and I feed like crazy. I have a crazy amount of pods in my tank which feeds fish and corals. My sand is almost never pure white.... but that is ok.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!

 

[tupes]

@reefkeeperCOL my wife is really not going to like you when I tell her I need to buy a microscope to diagnose my algea. I've never seen this before after all the time Ive been on here.

What are you using for water during your water change? Do you have an rodi system? Do you have test kits?

IF IT IS CYANO, Chemiclean is a quick fix but it does not treat the problem. You'll still need to find what is causing it

 

[._Z_.]

Here’s a microscope picture of cyano and dino from my tank a few months back. The cyano is the red filament glob. Dino are the single called organisms you see.

I would highly recommend against dosing anything to kill the cyano off if you happen to have both. Cyano is much easier to tame than dino as I’m finding out.

Your video looks like dino to me, my gsp and zoas hate the dinos as well. My LPS mostly look unaffected, and my SPS have all slowly died (partially from the treatments trying to stop the dinos)

 

[dansreef]

Exactly. I was looking for a video of my progress with Dinos 2 years ago. This picture of from ._z_. is a perfect illustration of the difference between Dinos and Cyano. Let the cyano and other algaes bloom...grow out. They will outcompete the Dinos. The tank will likely get a bit uglier, and the solution does not happen overnight.... likely a few weeks. But going dirty is the way to go over introducing chemicals and stressing out your tank with prolonged blackouts that seldom work long term.

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

@reefkeeperCOL my wife is really not going to like you when I tell her I need to buy a microscope to diagnose my algea. I've never seen this before after all the time Ive been on here.

What are you using for water during your water change? Do you have an rodi system? Do you have test kits?

IF IT IS CYANO, Chemiclean is a quick fix but it does not treat the problem. You'll still need to find what is causing it

LOL, its a cheap microscope that my son received as a christmas gift. it was perfect to determine the kind od pest. I have an Spectrapure 4 stages RODI with all filters like new. Ihave tested the water with API and shows o on PO4 and 0 nitrate ( I know, I have to get better tests).

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

Not if it’s making it worse.
I’d look at rodi
Look at foods , Esp coral foods
Aminos
Bacterial additives.

Are you using a probiotic salt ?

I'm starting to add RED SEA coral nutrition program a week ago. no bacterial additives by now. and RED SEA CORAL PRO SALT

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

The video you posted shows small oblong or roundish organisms (yellowish) moving indepedently of each other. I do not see long filiminatous materials which you would with cyano. You look to have Dinoflagalates.

If you are running ultra low nutrients, let them rise. Bring your Phosphates (>.03) up as well as your nitrates (10-20). You want to start encouraging algae and other materials like Cyano to grow and outcompete the dinoflagalates. These Dinos are much harder of the nuisance to get rid of. Once you see green and the cyano start growing, add in pods a vareity of pods and CUC. You want to have algae and bacteria outcompete the dinos... as well as increase your biodiversity of the tank's micro organisms.

It will get uglier before it gets better. I prefer a more natural approach...a dirty water approach to solving for Dinos. Others will suggest all sorts of black regimines, chemicals.... etc... This is what I have found to be most effective for my tanks. I fought a very long drawn out battle with Dinos and until I went dirty was losing. I now keep my Phosphates around .05 and nitrates above 10. It works for me. I also run an algae scrubber on my tank... and I feed like crazy. I have a crazy amount of pods in my tank which feeds fish and corals. My sand is almost never pure white.... but that is ok.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!

thanks, I'll follow your instructions and get more dirty, I will shut down the skimmer for some hour per day and continued with daily add of coral nutrition program.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Algae eats the same thing corals do.

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

do you think 3 days blackout works for this pest?

 

[._Z_.]

do you think 3 days blackout works for this pest?

Blackouts seem to be hit and miss. Just came out of one and it didn’t work for mine.

In addition to increasing nutrients (po4 no3), I’d stop dosing amino acids and other stuff, I learned this the hard way too, dinos can eat that stuff up just like corals.

There’s a couple dinoflagellates threads that will have plenty of people that have asked the same questions as you and lots of people to answer.

Trying to identify your exact type of dino will help to decide the best course of action.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No. Somthing is feeding it.
Be it Aminos , an orgianic carbon source, a Po4 limitation (phosphate block) etc.
trick is to find what is it

 

[dansreef]

The fact that you are zero and zero for phosphates and nitrates means the dinos have no other competition and they will continue to bloom. I dont think blackout do much other that put the inevitable on hold. They just end up bouncing back. You want competition and by going dirty.... raising your nutrients.... you will get other stuff like algae and cyano to bloom which will outcompete the dinos. I agree with ._z_. in stop dosing aminos and trace element. Stop water changes. Let the tank go dirty.... it may get much uglier. In the long run, the dinos will fade and the battle shifts to cyano and algae control....and then managing a slightly higher nutrient system.

 

[reefkeeperCOL]

The fact that you are zero and zero for phosphates and nitrates means the dinos have no other competition and they will continue to bloom. I dont think blackout do much other that put the inevitable on hold. They just end up bouncing back. You want competition and by going dirty.... raising your nutrients.... you will get other stuff like algae and cyano to bloom which will outcompete the dinos. I agree with ._z_. in stop dosing aminos and trace element. Stop water changes. Let the tank go dirty.... it may get much uglier. In the long run, the dinos will fade and the battle shifts to cyano and algae control....and then managing a slightly higher nutrient system.

thanks for your answer, should I turn off the skimmer and the biopellets reactor ?

 

[dansreef]

I think I would leave the skimmer on... I would take the bio pellets offline. I got rid of my three BP reactors, for my three tanks, a few years ago and my tanks have all done a lot better. I guess they suited a purpose at a time. I think with Dinos exploding in the hobby, more people are getting away from achieving a zero phosphates and zero nitrates environment.

 

[._Z_.]

thanks for your answer, should I turn off the skimmer and the biopellets reactor ?

You definitely want to stop most of your nutrient export methods. I’ve heard stopping a biopellet reactor cold can shock the system. So maybe take it down slowly, by running some of the day or slowly removing some media, or don’t trust me on this one because I’ve never used one. But it definitely needs to go so you can get nutrients up.

I leave my skimmer on because I want to get the dead dinos out of the system, also I like oxygenation it provides.

 

[._Z_.]

Again, check out this thread. I believe the first post answers your questions.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/