Dinoflagellates; PO4 undetectable

[Magnapinna]

I've found what appears to be Amphidinium sp. in my tank. Last week they were browning up my sand and rocks and I'm happy to say that a 6-day blackout looks to have helped tremendously, with very few brown patches currently visible. But my phosphates have been undetectable for months, even with skipping water changes and extra feeding, so I worry about them taking over again. Nitrates plateau at ~20ppm and I can't get a PO4 reading at all, which I'm kind of confused by --- there's hardly any visible algae in the tank and no corals that could be consuming it. The tank is about 5 months old and was started with dry rock, which I've heard can suck up phosphates? If that's the case, is there anything I can do to get a detectable amount or do I just need to wait it out?

 

[ryanjohn1]

What test are you using?

 

[FUNGI]

Dinoflagellates tend to emerge following extended periods of zero or near-zero phosphates and nitrates.

Dinos with 0 phosphates and nitrates.

Hello. I new to the hobby and my tank is about 7 months old. I’ve been having dino algae for about a month or so with zero nitrates and phosphates. I dropped my lighting to just 30% blue and no whites. I’ve researched on here to dose up phosphates first to around .10. Then nitrates. Problem is...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Magnapinna]

What test are you using?

My tests are API which I know aren't pinpoint accurate, so I had a sample checked with a Hanna which read at 0.02ppm

 

[Magnapinna]

Dinoflagellates tend to emerge following extended periods of zero or near-zero phosphates and nitrates.

I'm aware, so what can I do about the low PO4? I was going to pick up some Seachem Phosphorus at the LFS today but forgot it, kind of ticked because I can't get back there til next week

 

[FUNGI]

you can dump extra food (maybe Nori)....however, by the time the phospahtes show up, it will be next week anyway.....

 

[KStatefan]

You can dose phosphate. Purchase from somewhere of make your own solution. I am currently dosing 0.02 ppm per day using Sodium Phosphate Dibasic from Loudwolf

 

[Magnapinna]

you can dump extra food (maybe Nori)....however, by the time the phospahtes show up, it will be next week anyway.....

Ugh how annoying. Is it even worth trying to fix this without dosing? I would much rather let things sort themselves out than dosing... Especially as I'm going out of town in a couple weeks and won't be around to dose the tank for a few weeks. And I honestly just don't want to be stuck with a huge bottle of the stuff if I can avoid it, I have enough unused chemicals lying around. If I absolutely need to dose is there a better product I can look for? All my LFS had was the Flourish stuff and I'm apprehensive to use a freshwater product in this tank

 

[Magnapinna]

You can dose phosphate. Purchase from somewhere of make your own solution. I am currently dosing 0.02 ppm per day using Sodium Phosphate Dibasic from Loudwolf

dang I really don't want to dose if I don't have to. I don't want to pay $50-100 (some listings are up to $500+???) for sodium phosphate dibasic lol and I worry about using products that aren't explicitly made for saltwater aquariums anyways. So if I don't have a choice but to dose, is there a recommended premade solution? But again... I REALLY do not want to dose if I don't need

 

[KStatefan]

After six months of trying to get rid of dinos I will do anything that might keep them at at bay after my reset.

A 1 once bottle from Loudwolf is $7.99 with free freight.

I know Captivate Aquatics has a premade solution but not sure who else.

 

[Magnapinna]

After six months of trying to get rid of dinos I will do anything that might keep them at at bay after my reset.

A 1 once bottle from Loudwolf is $7.99 with free freight.

I know Captivate Aquatics has a premade solution but not sure who else.

Are dinoflagellates dangerous to have in a FOWLR? If I'm being honest I don't mind them enough to be worth the trouble of dosing. I'm the only one who looks at it. If the dinos aren't going to kill my fish or crabs I personally don't mind waiting for my nutrients to even themselves out. Just don't like putting stuff into my tanks unless I have absolutely no choice because I can never keep up with it. The tank is only 10g so I worry about stability if I start dosing

 

[Magnapinna]

One thing I will say is there's really no such thing as uneaten food in my tank, hell I struggle to feed my crabs because my clownfish is such an aggressive feeder. It's all I can do to get one pellet sunk to the bottom. Would it maybe work if I left a pellet or two in my HOB so the little pigs don't eat it all before it has a chance to decompose?

 

[Rjukan]

Use some ReefRoids to bump phos

 

[Magnapinna]

Something I'm also curious about is why I'm reading NO3 but not PO4??? I don't think I've ever seen nitrates >10 with an almost nonexistent phosphate level, I'm far from a chemist lol but it seems like I should have both in detectable quantities at the very least

 

[Ziggy17]

During blackouts, LCA and SCA go into cyst mode for a couple weeks. They will emerge back in numbers. Dose silicate (water glass) for a month or so. The diatoms will outcompete the Dino’s. In the while, dose phosphate to get it to at least .08 which leaves room for margin of error for test kits.

 

[Magnapinna]

During blackouts, LCA and SCA go into cyst mode for a couple weeks. They will emerge back in numbers. Dose silicate (water glass) for a month or so. The diatoms will outcompete the Dino’s. In the while, dose phosphate to get it to at least .08 which leaves room for margin of error for test kits.

Is there really no way around them without dosing stuff? I'd honestly rather just restart the tank if not lol. I don't even have corals yet and I don't want to make things worse by swinging numbers around. I'm also going to have someone else watching the tank next month and definitely don't want to put them in charge of dosing

 

[Ziggy17]

Is there really no way around them without dosing stuff? I'd honestly rather just restart the tank if not lol. I don't even have corals yet and I don't want to make things worse by swinging numbers around. I'm also going to have someone else watching the tank next month and definitely don't want to put them in charge of dosing

I get it. I felt the same way. I say dosing but it’s a bit less technical term in your case.

By dosing the water glass, it’s a matter of putting a few ml in the DT to get the Si up past 3ppm. Then just put 5ml in your ATO reservoir and it should hold it pretty steady for you. That’s the cure.

Buy a bottle of Neophos and sledgehammering some PO4 in the system. Then adding some to the ATO reservoir to keep some going into the system. That’s your prevention.

It’s as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. I went the simple route as per above. I’m fairly certain that if you let it be, eventually the Dino’s will go away. Could take a year, maybe less, maybe more. Hard to say as it all about biodiversity, and every system is unique. The attachment I posted is a good read.

Hope that helps you in some way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

dang I really don't want to dose if I don't have to. I don't want to pay $50-100 (some listings are up to $500+???) for sodium phosphate dibasic lol and I worry about using products that aren't explicitly made for saltwater aquariums anyways. So if I don't have a choice but to dose, is there a recommended premade solution? But again... I REALLY do not want to dose if I don't need

What? It’s quite cheap. Way cheaper than more foods or neophos.
Loudwolf 4 ounces is $8 from Amazon.

That’s enough to raise 100 liters of water by 0.1 ppm several thousand times.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Something I'm also curious about is why I'm reading NO3 but not PO4??? I don't think I've ever seen nitrates >10 with an almost nonexistent phosphate level, I'm far from a chemist lol but it seems like I should have both in detectable quantities at the very least

Rock and sand can suck up a lot of phosphate, but no nitrate.

 

[Magnapinna]

I get it. I felt the same way. I say dosing but it’s a bit less technical term in your case.

By dosing the water glass, it’s a matter of putting a few ml in the DT to get the Si up past 3ppm. Then just put 5ml in your ATO reservoir and it should hold it pretty steady for you. That’s the cure.

Buy a bottle of Neophos and sledgehammering some PO4 in the system. Then adding some to the ATO reservoir to keep some going into the system. That’s your prevention.

It’s as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. I went the simple route as per above. I’m fairly certain that if you let it be, eventually the Dino’s will go away. Could take a year, maybe less, maybe more. Hard to say as it all about biodiversity, and every system is unique. The attachment I posted is a good read.

Hope that helps you in some way.

Thank you for the explanation, will definitely come in handy if I do decide to go this route I also admit part of my reason for apprehension is financial, as I'm on a college budget. I have no problem spending on necessities but I want to pick my battles when it comes to the stuff that's not. I'm perfectly happy to be patient and have invariably found that to be the best cure to unstable conditions in my tanks. Maybe I'll try to let the PO4 sort itself out and just worry about dosing silicates