Dinoflagellets

[Cory]

These dinoflagellets are really a pain. Im trying to search for scientific article's about how to kill them. Any keywords to use?

 

[Cory]

Any thoughts on this article? Could this be a source in our tanks?

Most harmful algal bloom species are vitamin B1 and B12 auxotrophs
Ying Zhong Tang, Florian Koch, Christopher J Gobler
Proceedings of the national academy of sciences 107 (48), 20756-20761, 2010
Eutrophication can play a central role in promoting harmful algal blooms (HABs), and therefore many HAB studies to date have focused on macronutrients (N, P, Si). Although a majority of algal species require exogenous B vitamins (i.e., auxotrophic for B vitamins), the possible importance of organic micronutrients such as B vitamins (B1, B7, B12) in regulating HABs has rarely been considered. Prior investigations of vitamins and algae have examined a relatively small number of dinoflagellates (n = 26) and a paucity of HAB species (n = 4). In the present study, the vitamin B1, B7, and B12 requirements of 41 strains of 27 HAB species (19 dinoflagellates) were investigated. All but one species (two strains) of harmful algae surveyed required vitamin B12, 20 of 27 species required B1, and 10 of 27 species required B7, all proportions higher than the previously reported for non-HAB species. Half-saturation (Ks) constants of several HAB species for B1 and B12 were higher than those previously reported for other phytoplankton and similar to vitamin concentrations reported in estuaries. Cellular quotas for vitamins suggest that, in some cases, HAB demands for vitamins may exhaust standing stocks of vitamins in hours to days. The sum of these findings demonstrates the potentially significant ecological role of B-vitamins in regulating the dynamics of HABs.

 

[Cory]

Just looking for some causes. Urea maybe?

Cooccurrence of elevated urea levels and dinoflagellate blooms in temperate estuarine aquaculture ponds
Patricia M Glibert, Daniel E Terlizzi
Applied and Environmental Microbiology 65 (12), 5594-5596, 1999
In hybrid striped bass aquaculture ponds, dinoflagellate blooms were found on 10 of 14 occasions to co-occur with concentrations of urea in excess of 1.5 μM nitrogen. When urea levels were <1.5 μM nitrogen, on seven occasions, no evidence of dinoflagellate blooms was observed in these ponds.

 

[Cory]

Removal of urea from swimming pool water by UV/VUV: The roles of additives, mechanisms, influencing factors, and reaction products
Author links open overlay panelLiangchenLongaRehanSadiqb
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.watres.2019.05.098Get rights and content

Highlights

•
Seven (V)UV-based processes were compared to control urea.
•
VUV exhibited higher urea removal yet lower TDS increment than others.
•
Direct VUV irradiation and indirect oxidation via HO· and SO4·- degraded urea.
•
SO42− and Cl− enhanced yet organic matter inhibited removal of urea.
•
The key pathway for urea photolysis was mineralization, leading to NH4+ & NO3−.

Abstract
To discover an applicable technology for urea abatement from swimming pool water (SPW), this study compared the performances of seven ultraviolet (UV)-based technologies on urea removal, including UV alone, UV coupled with hydrogen peroxide (UV/H2O2), sulfite (UV/Na2SO3), potassium persulfate (UV/K2S2O8), a combination of UV and vacuum UV (UV/VUV), and UV/VUV in tandem with either H2O2 (VUV/H2O2) or potassium persulfate (VUV/K2S2O8). Among them, UV and UV/Na2SO3 showed little removal ability, and UV/H2O2 removed only 12.8% of urea within 3-h experiments, while UV/VUV degraded 71.7% of urea without introducing substantial total dissolved solids (TDS). Therefore, UV/VUV was considered as a promising technology for further exploration. In comparison, although UV/K2S2O8 exhibited higher urea removal than UV/VUV, it caused dramatic increases of TDS, which made the regulatory threshold for the TDS increment difficult to maintain. Within UV/VUV studies, some common components in SPW (e.g., cyanuric acid, humic acid, nitrate, and bicarbonate) inhibited the removal process, whereas chloride and sulfate facilitated it, while free chlorine at doses ≤ 3 mg-Cl2/L and pH levels from 6.8 to 8.0 imposed little impact on urea degradation. Overall, UV/VUV degraded 40.0% and 22.2% of urea from tap water and SPW, respectively; both were lower than the efficiency observed in ultrapure water. As for reaction byproducts, urea phototransformation via UV/VUV yielded nitrate and ammonia as the key products with the mass balance of nitrogen element being met. However, the contents of organic carbon decreased at a rate slightly lower than urea degradation, suggesting that urea was mostly mineralized and slightly converted to unknown organic compounds. The results hence demonstrate that UV/VUV is an effective alternative for urea removal from SPW.

 

[taricha]

B12 is interesting and tantalizing possibility, maybe when I see mixed cyano mats with dinos, the cyano is providing B12 the dinos need.
But detecting/ testing/ creating/ a B12 limitation is much more daunting even than Fe limitation. @andrewey demonstrated Fe limitation on dino growth quite convincingly.

Urea association in that paper fits in with a pattern that we see in practice and in published papers, Organics are preferred forms of nutrition for dinoflagellates. Simple inorganics (NO3) are therefore recommended instead.

The UV paper is interesting because it points to secondary effect for UV. Killing cells but also a small effect in breaking down organics.

 

[Cory]

B12 is interesting and tantalizing possibility, maybe when I see mixed cyano mats with dinos, the cyano is providing B12 the dinos need.
But detecting/ testing/ creating/ a B12 limitation is much more daunting even than Fe limitation. @andrewey demonstrated Fe limitation on dino growth quite convincingly.

Urea association in that paper fits in with a pattern that we see in practice and in published papers, Organics are preferred forms of nutrition for dinoflagellates. Simple inorganics (NO3) are therefore recommended instead.

The UV paper is interesting because it points to secondary effect for UV. Killing cells but also a small effect in breaking down organics.

Yes i believe that uv is effectively a triple whammy to dinoflagellets because it degrades organics, kills cells, and i just read destroys b12 and ither b vitamins. It might be worth it for me to buy one.

 

[Dan_P]

Any thoughts on this article? Could this be a source in our tanks?

Most harmful algal bloom species are vitamin B1 and B12 auxotrophs
Ying Zhong Tang, Florian Koch, Christopher J Gobler
Proceedings of the national academy of sciences 107 (48), 20756-20761, 2010
Eutrophication can play a central role in promoting harmful algal blooms (HABs), and therefore many HAB studies to date have focused on macronutrients (N, P, Si). Although a majority of algal species require exogenous B vitamins (i.e., auxotrophic for B vitamins), the possible importance of organic micronutrients such as B vitamins (B1, B7, B12) in regulating HABs has rarely been considered. Prior investigations of vitamins and algae have examined a relatively small number of dinoflagellates (n = 26) and a paucity of HAB species (n = 4). In the present study, the vitamin B1, B7, and B12 requirements of 41 strains of 27 HAB species (19 dinoflagellates) were investigated. All but one species (two strains) of harmful algae surveyed required vitamin B12, 20 of 27 species required B1, and 10 of 27 species required B7, all proportions higher than the previously reported for non-HAB species. Half-saturation (Ks) constants of several HAB species for B1 and B12 were higher than those previously reported for other phytoplankton and similar to vitamin concentrations reported in estuaries. Cellular quotas for vitamins suggest that, in some cases, HAB demands for vitamins may exhaust standing stocks of vitamins in hours to days. The sum of these findings demonstrates the potentially significant ecological role of B-vitamins in regulating the dynamics of HABs.

Marine bacteria probably produce B12 and we throw enriched food into our systems containing B12 or the necessary ingredients for bacteria to synthesize it. So, yeah a distinct possibility, though a real doozy of a challenge to establish a cause-effect relationship when such tiny amounts can have a large effect on growth.

I suppose one could dose B12 and note whether dinoflagellates increase in numbers. It would only be a correlation but a start. How would you remove B12 from the system to show that this shutS off dinoflagellates growth?

 

[Dan_P]

Just looking for some causes. Urea maybe?

Cooccurrence of elevated urea levels and dinoflagellate blooms in temperate estuarine aquaculture ponds
Patricia M Glibert, Daniel E Terlizzi
Applied and Environmental Microbiology 65 (12), 5594-5596, 1999
In hybrid striped bass aquaculture ponds, dinoflagellate blooms were found on 10 of 14 occasions to co-occur with concentrations of urea in excess of 1.5 μM nitrogen. When urea levels were <1.5 μM nitrogen, on seven occasions, no evidence of dinoflagellate blooms was observed in these ponds.

Not a very useful paper because the data is not supplied that allows us to verify the correlation and conclusions. Many other analytes vary in a similar manner as urea In the data table. This paper feels like an opinion piece.

 

[taricha]

Not a very useful paper because the data is not supplied that allows us to verify the correlation and conclusions. Many other analytes vary in a similar manner as urea In the data table. This paper feels like an opinion piece.

It's definitely a hobby horse for that author. Glibert has written quite a few papers on the connection between urea (agriculture runoff) and harmful algae blooms.
She's also one who has written the most in depth looks at benthic dinoflagellates, especially prorocentrum.

 

[Cory]

Can you guys help with these dinos kn my tank? Just got the scope in today.they are not moving, are they dead? Tank reached 90f today possibly why?

 

[taricha]

Can you guys help with these dinos kn my tank?

Ostreopsis. the easiest to zap with UV.

 

[neiltus]

It's definitely a hobby horse for that author. Gilbert has written quite a few papers on the connection between urea (agriculture runoff) and harmful algae blooms.
She's also one who has written the most in depth looks at benthic dinoflagellates, especially prorocentrum.

she knows her urea.

har har.

sorry.

 

[Cory]

EFFECTS OF TURBULENCE ON THE MARINE DINOFLAGELLATE GYMNODINIUM NELSONII1
Elisa Berdalet
Journal of Phycology 28 (3), 267-272, 1992
Laboratory experiments were conducted to study the effects of agitation on growth, cell division, and nucleic acid dynamics of the dinoflagellate Gymnodinium nelsonii Martin. When cultures were placed on an orbital shaker at 100 rpm, cell division was prevented, cellular volume increased up to 1.5 times that of the nonperturbed cells, the form and location of the cell nucleus were modified, and the RNA and DNA concentrations per cell increased up to 10 times those of the controls. When shaking was stopped after 10 days, cells divided immediately at about 2/3 of the division rate of the unshaken populations, and all the altered parameters were restored. If the agitation continued for more than 20 days, total cell death and disintegration occurred. Several cellular types differing in size and shape were observed in the control and shaken cultures. One possible hypothesis for these results is that failure of the cell to divide results from physical disturbance of the microtubule assemblage associated with chromosome separation during mitosis. My study suggests that small‐scale oceanic turbulence of sufficient intensity may inhibit growth of individual dinoflagellate cells, but immediate development of the population may continue when calm weather follows the active mixing period.

 

[taricha]

for context, that is a planktonic type dino.
100 rpm is not that much, I'm a bit surprised the dino doesn't have a better method to deal with it.
Our dinos are good at anchoring themselves in even a strong flow, in front of a pump etc. .

 

[Cory]

After installing a uv sterilizer, dinos have been greatly reduced. I no longer have brown glass, but green showing up very slowly and litttle.

I wonder, is it the killing of the dinos or the destruction of some important thing they need in the water? It seems uv resets your tank water back to zero, which imo is a great thing.

 

[Snoopdog]

Yes i believe that uv is effectively a triple whammy to dinoflagellets because it degrades organics, kills cells, and i just read destroys b12 and ither b vitamins. It might be worth it for me to buy one.

I knew I had an uphill battle with them, I had ostreopsis. I tried things like raising phophate and nitrate, I did not notice anything there. I removed my skimmer, quit water changes and did not notice a difference. They did not seem to go into a filter sock much, stirring them up in the display tank just dispersed them and they would quickly reform. Two high wattage UV and doing a half day blackout twice, well that did them in....for good.

 

[Cory]

I knew I had an uphill battle with them, I had ostreopsis. I tried things like raising phophate and nitrate, I did not notice anything there. I removed my skimmer, quit water changes and did not notice a difference. They did not seem to go into a filter sock much, stirring them up in the display tank just dispersed them and they would quickly reform. Two high wattage UV and doing a half day blackout twice, well that did them in....for good.

What size uvs? How big is your tank?

 

[Snoopdog]

Red Sea Max-260 (59 gallons?). Two of those 24 watt green killing machines. Cheap! But they are beast! I think these have been in on day 6 now, no resurgence. Other than a bit of cyano, no dinoflagellates. I can deal with cyano.

 

[Cory]

Red Sea Max-260 (59 gallons?). Two of those 24 watt green killing machines. Cheap! But they are beast! I think these have been in on day 6 now, no resurgence. Other than a bit of cyano, no dinoflagellates. I can deal with cyano.

Those aren't bad i got one too and a new 90watter. Just watch out for those screws hidden underneath the rubber plugs around the uv case, they apparently rust.

 

[Snoopdog]

Those aren't bad i got one too and a new 90watter. Just watch out for those screws hidden underneath the rubber plugs around the uv case, they apparently rust.

Well if they start, they are getting replaced with stainless. Lets see those rust.