DINOS Have made it to my tank!!

jtvaughn

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Guess it was a matter of time before dinoflagellates would hit my reef. I thought it was diatoms but my system is over 2 years old. Then I saw those strings of brown algae and clusters of bubbles on some of my corals. Does anyone have any good ideas on how I can treat this without tearing down my tank?
Thanks
 
Having corals makes the task tricky...Star Fish would do the trick overnight, but would gorge on you corals....you can look into snails, many want harm corals.
 
Dino’s can be toxic to inverts
 
Having corals makes the task tricky...Star Fish would do the trick overnight, but would gorge on you corals....you can look into snails, many want harm corals.
I will look into getting snails. Thanks
 
Read the Dino thread. uV and dirty water did the trick for me
Agree 100% I don’t know if my uv did anything but when i stopped water changes for a while my tank started looking good.
 
First if you can get a positive ID on the type of dinos you have ...take a sample too lfs with a microscope and use your phone camera too take photos ...its important too know which sort you have as too what treatment is needed ..then check this thread out and post there ...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/page-325#post-5708348
Goodluck.!


What magnification is needed to identify dinos? My lfs is an hour drive. I'd like to order a microscope to have on hand and want to make sure I order something useful.
 
i bought a cheap $20 microscope from amazon, has 3 magnifications, case, etc. did the trick
 
first let me welcome you to the club.;) second, this does not mean your tank is going to crash or needs to be torn down.

Can you post your parameters to the tank please include po4 and no3.

Since you believe you have dino run activated carbon. This will clean your tank of toxins that dino will release.

Dino are are photosynthesis creatures. Under right conditions they become predatory and release toxins to kill off competitors.
Stop all carbon dosing , gfo and all nitrate removers. Stop water changes there seems be something in are salts that help them thrive.

@fishyfishyfishy please weigh in with your experience.
 
I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info:
  • some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak
  • how to avoid common dino outbreaks
  • and what do if your tank is already having an outbreak
Let's get started!

Common Contributing Factors
Some of the most common factors that contribute to the dino outbreaks we cover in this thread are:
  • the tank being new, rock being immature or the tank being otherwise highly disturbed, such as by other harsh tank treatments
  • hard core nutrient reduction tools being used, such as
    • organic carbon dosing
    • excess "bio media"
    • algae filtration
    • nutrient adsorbing media like GFO
These four factors, or excess nutrient removal generally, play – usually in combination; rarely just one factor alone – pretty directly into dino's conversion to the blooming, phagotrophic, mat forming, toxin-producing side of their nature.
  • Starvation Is Their Cue
    • Dino's seem to prefer life as autotrophic epiphytes on macro algae – chaeto morpha seems to be one of their favorite types to host in. (Maybe this fact can be useful to us; maybe sometimes chaeto ought not be used, or used with special consideration)
    • For several reasons, dino's seem to be terrible at nutrient uptake. This means they are more prone to starvation than many or most other microorganisms they have to compete with.....especially bacteria, which can scavenge free nutrients down to CRAZY low levels...low enough to starve out other microbes or algae.
    • With their protective mucus mats, potential to generate wicked toxins, and ability to survive not only by way of photosynthesis and dissolved nutrients, but alternately, when times get tough, by "eating their neighbors". (The least of their tricks.)
    • Dino's generally gain a competitive edge against their competitors AND their predators in a nutrient-starved environment. Keep reading!
How To Avoid Having A Dino Outbreak
In a nutshell, here's how to avoid dino outbreaks and begin to normalize your tank if you already have an outbreak:
  • Phosphate Control
  • Nitrate Control
  • Starvation conditions (zero or near-zero nitrate or phosphate levels) should be avoided.
    • Keep in mind that dissolved nutrients are not "waste products" to be eliminated
    • They are nutrients for the critters you care about like corals
    • The are also nutrients for a potential multitude of mostly-unknown/anonymous microbes that are needed to bring stability to a new tank.
    • Once excess nutrients have an impact, in fact, they usually can't be simply eliminated with media anyway – they've probably already had an impact on the tank's microbial cycle. (See blog link #3 at bottom.)
    • This all adds up to skipping almost all "extra" nutrient removing steps during the tank's initial development. This period seems to be especially critical, and longer in a tank started with dry, dead rock. Don't use anything until it's absolutely needed and other options have been fully exhausted...and be conservative with how you apply any nutrient removing tool.
What to do if you're tank is already having a dino outbreak
When attempting to control an organism like a dinoflagellate, confirming the ID will help, if possible:
  • So to begin with, make sure you have Dinos – you should have multiple factors at work...these factors were mentioned in the first section above. The less these factors seem to describe your tank, the less likely any of this advice will be correct for your situation – so post questions! :)
    • no special equipment is needed to confirm whether your algae sample has dino's and/or other algae
    • Use @taricha's dino confirmation guide on posts #986-987.
  • Once you have confirmed that you have dino's you should ideally figure out what type(s) your tank is hosting. (Multiple species blooms seem almost as common as single-strain blooms.)
    • A basic 1200x microscope will be useful and doesn't have to be fancier than a $15 toy scope. Even a $50 scope is a lot nicer, if you think you might be more serious about it.
    • See: Selecting a microscope for more discussion.
  • Extra Measures
    Generally, these tools will give extra control in terms of removing and/or killing cells in the water column....usually, along with other measures explained here, expediting the close of the dino bloom.
    • UV
      You can find discussions throughout the thread by using this search, with a great breakout of spec's on post #3770.
    • Diatom Filtration
      Effective, but not that popular. The more common units like the classic Vortex are somewhat difficult to use, and the newer units like the new Marineland Polishing Filter are relatively unknown. Still worthy of consideration.
So, after you get a measure of control, make sure you read What is the End Game?

Miscellaneous Goodies
  • Take measures to assure that your feeding system is very consistent. An auto-feeder is an overlooked tool on most tanks. Look at Eheim's feeders...set them on low with high quality flake food. Just don't let them run your whole feeding program as flake isn't great food.
  • Find out what inconsistencies you can eliminate with your husbandry to prevent more unneeded disturbances and the resulting microbial/algal changes. This could be changes to lighting or water chemistry – make them as consistent as you can.
  • E.g. If you're adding new livestock all the time, stop it. If you have a color-tunable light fixture, stop re-tuning the colors. If you don't have an ATO keeping your salinity stable, get one. If you're still managing your dosing by hand, get an $80 4-head doser. Etc.
  • If you provide the stability, then your dino's competitors will start competing with them and their predators will start eating them!!
  • One thing that seems to help things progress is to stop scraping down the algae off your glass....once the dino's start giving up space that is. Mechanical removal is a legit short-term strategy and might help give competitors a leg up too.
2¢

Other interesting more-or-less related links on my blog:
(Also cross-posted in the old Dino thread!)
 
First if you can get a positive ID on the type of dinos you have ...take a sample too lfs with a microscope and use your phone camera too take photos ...its important too know which sort you have as too what treatment is needed ..then check this thread out and post there ...
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/page-325#post-5708348
Goodluck.!
Thats a good point. So two main types ones that go into tbe sandbed at night and the others that go into tbe water column at night . UV won't touch the ones that go into the sandbed.

I really hate the term dirty water method. It makes it seem like we are not taking care of our systems. The dirty water is really not starving our tanks of simple building blocks of life .
 
Thats a good point. So two main types ones that go into tbe sandbed at night and the others that go into tbe water column at night . UV won't touch the ones that go into the sandbed.

I really hate the term dirty water method. It makes it seem like we are not taking care of our systems. The dirty water is really not starving our tanks of simple building blocks of life .
I've always had a high nutrient tank no3 50 ppm and po4 0.08 -0.15 ...and I got dinos ....so a dirty tank is no guarantee that you won't get dinos or it will rid you of dinos ... theres lots of reasons dinos thrive in our tanks from changing lights ...0 p04 and 0 no3 too an unbalance in our tanks microbiology....I was dealing with what I thought was coolia when really it was amphidiniums ....so getting a good ID is important as early as possible ..
 
I've always had a high nutrient tank no3 50 ppm and po4 0.08 -0.15 ...and I got dinos ....so a dirty tank is no guarantee that you won't get dinos or it will rid you of dinos ... theres lots of reasons dinos thrive in our tanks from changing lights ...0 p04 and 0 no3 too an unbalance in our tanks microbiology....I was dealing with what I thought was coolia when really it was amphidiniums ....so getting a good ID is important as early as possible ..
Your right, but most see them in ulns
 
first let me welcome you to the club.;) second, this does not mean your tank is going to crash or needs to be torn down.

Can you post your parameters to the tank please include po4 and no3.

Since you believe you have dino run activated carbon. This will clean your tank of toxins that dino will release.

Dino are are photosynthesis creatures. Under right conditions they become predatory and release toxins to kill off competitors.
Stop all carbon dosing , gfo and all nitrate removers. Stop water changes there seems be something in are salts that help them thrive.

@fishyfishyfishy please weigh in with your experience.
Thank your for welcoming me to the club. Here are my parameters:

Po4 10ppm
No3 20ppm
Dkh 9
Ph 8.2
Ammonia 0
Mag 1300
Ca2 440

Chemical Filtration l am running now is zeolite and carbon. I stopped carbon dosing once l read that this can boost the dinos. A few weeks ago l started dosing vinegar in my Kalkwasser and that's when l started seeing the brown algae appearing on my sand bed.
 

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