Dinos with high nutrients. What comes next?

[JoJosReef]

NO3: >20 (slightly) (API)
PO4: ~0.25 (Salifert)

Other parameters
Alk: 9.5 (Salifert)
Ca: 430 (Salifert)
Sg: 1.026
Mg: not tested but usually at 1260 or 1290 (Salifert)

Finally beat the GHA take-over of my Fluval Evo 13.5g by removing 2 GHA-covered dead rocks and replacing with 3 fresh Tampa Bay Saltwater rocks (so now 3 GHA dead rocks and 3 TBS rocks), scooping out about 1/4 of the CaribSea GHA-covered sand and replacing with TBS live sand, and adding a bunch of ceriths of different types, a money cowrie, massive number of dwarf ceriths, a few astraeas, about 6 nerites and a couple of limpets. All of this happened in mid-Jan. GHA started receding and now there is only a little bit left on one of the rocks and GHA in the sand is mostly gone. I feed my 2 clowns and cleaner shrimp bottled food from RUSalty and/or frozen mysis/brine or occassionally pellets as a treat, once daily.

In 2 days, sand went from looking better to looking like this (pic taken with orphek lenses):

I checked under microscope, and whereas in the past I've always noticed a few amphidinium that never took off, this time there were many and most of them looked like ostreopsis. And I found two of my ceriths dead on the sand bed.

I've followed the Dino threads, and the mega-one by @mcarroll and I put a 9w UV into the display running at 24hr minus feeding/cleaning. Turned off the lights for a day (not covered) and running at half regular intensity today. Blasting the rocks when I can to kick up any other dinos that might be there. It looks like it has receded A LOT. But, maybe it just comes back once I turn off the UV. I don't know yet.

My question is this:

What comes next (cue King George)?

I added rocks and sand straight from the Gulf. Just beat back GHA. Once the dinos are gone, am I supposed to expect cyano to establish itself? Isn't the gulf diversity meant to help compete with the nuisance algae/bacteria? What am I aiming for in the sand bed/rocks? Part of the reason for buying plane tickets for the gulf rocks/sand was to get to a point where I don't have hands in the tank every night.

Note: the gulf rocks have largely been unlittered with the dinos, just the dead rocks and sand. I don't know when/if the coraline from the premium gulf rocks will make it onto the dead rock (Caribsea liferock).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[blaxsun]

Short answer:
* Chemical - some ChemiPure Elite (you may need to divvy up into a smaller bag to fit into your sump)
* Biological: 3-4 Ring cowries (they apparently eat dinos, but they need to be ring cowries)

 

[JoJosReef]

Short answer:
* Chemical - some ChemiPure Elite (you may need to divvy up into a smaller bag to fit into your sump)
* Biological: 3-4 Ring cowries (they apparently eat dinos, but they need to be ring cowries)

Are those the money cowries? Like this one:

If the UV works and beats back the dinos, what I'm really unclear about is what should replace the dinos. I've read that having cyano or diatoms is better--sure, but the. You're trying to get rid of those as well. What do you need living in/on your sand so that it looks relatively clean?

 

[blaxsun]

Are those the money cowries? Like this one:

Only if they have a gold ring around them.

 

[Spare time]

Consider siphoning the sand bed and adding some waste away and eco balance. If phosphates are truly that high and have been for a while, I'd look at adding competition. Something about your tank is favorable to them if they keep coming back when the UV is off. This is where I would start. Don't take drastic actions unless needed.

 

[Miami Reef]

Are those the money cowries? Like this one:

If the UV works and beats back the dinos, what I'm really unclear about is what should replace the dinos. I've read that having cyano or diatoms is better--sure, but the. You're trying to get rid of those as well. What do you need living in/on your sand so that it looks relatively clean?

I don’t know the answer to this question, but once the Dino’s and cyano were gone, the sand bed became white again! I still don’t know what’s living there to prevent Dino’s.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Keep it simple. Dino is photosythetic and loves light. You need to make it unhappy to go away. Too many have tried this below and won the battle:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[Nick Steele]

Okay so I had a long battle with Dino’s last year which lasted 10+ months and drove me crazy. Did a rip clean and got rid my sand. That got rid of Dino’s for a few months but then I started seeing cyano. Finally got rid of that by not feeding my fish every day and went down to 2 or 3 times a week. Decided to add sand back into tank and had another crazy cyano bloom due to high phosphate from the sand (even though I rinsed it). Brought phosphate down with chemi pure blue nano over a month or so and cyano disappeared but then Dino’s came back :mad: I tried dosing to keep phosphate and nitrate at .03 and 5ppm but that didn’t seem to do anything so I went ahead and stopped dosing but started to feed the tank every day half a cube of mysis etc and it is slowly working it’s self out again.

Sometimes I think we get to caught up in this/that works and we deviate from the KISS mentality and it throws the tank off even more.

 

[Miami Reef]

Okay so I had a long battle with Dino’s last year which lasted 10+ months and drove me crazy. Did a rip clean and got rid my sand. That got rid of Dino’s for a few months but then I started seeing cyano. Finally got rid of that by not feeding my fish every day and went down to 2 or 3 times a week. Decided to add sand back into tank and had another crazy cyano bloom due to high phosphate from the sand (even though I rinsed it). Brought phosphate down with chemi pure blue nano over a month or so and cyano disappeared but then Dino’s came back :mad: I tried dosing to keep phosphate and nitrate at .03 and 5ppm but that didn’t seem to do anything so I went ahead and stopped dosing but started to feed the tank every day half a cube of mysis etc and it is slowly working it’s self out again.

Sometimes I think we get to caught up in this/that works and we deviate from the KISS mentality and it throws the tank off even more.

I agree with this! There’s just no agreement on what causes Dinoflagellate outbreaks in aquariums.

They can come in high nutrients, zero nutrients, moderate nutrients. And then there are people who run similar tank styles with no dinos!

I’m currently in the mindset that increasing biodiversity and keeping nutrients around NSW and just being patient will do it, but it’s far from proven.

There is no proven cure for Dino’s.

 

[JoJosReef]

Thanks everyone! I imagine nobody really knows what's occupying the sand niche to keep the nuisance algae at bay. Still holding out to see if my office tank, which is 100% gulf rock and sand, gets this.

 

[JimmyV]

Keep it simple. Dino is photosythetic and loves light. You need to make it unhappy to go away. Too many have tried this below and won the battle:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Keep it simple. Dino is photosythetic and loves light. You need to make it unhappy to go away. Too many have tried this below and won the battle:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowl

Keep it simple. Dino is photosythetic and loves light. You need to make it unhappy to go away. Too many have tried this below and won the battle:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

I am going to start your regimen, do I have to cover the tank glass also?

 

[JohnMzreef]

Could you be overlighting your tank?

 

[Eazy E]

Similar to your story, I'm at the point where I just run my UV 24/7 to keep dinos from popping back up. Fought dinos for while in my display and fuge, only to have it come back weeks later. In a couple months from now I'll take it down and see if the come back.