Dirty Water - Fact or Fiction?

[seareefrun]

I like to keep my reef's in balance using the building blocks of life, in this order. sunlight(as close as we can get with gas fixture's), O2, H2o, Co2 and No3. Plus all the vitamins & minerals in trace amounts. The hardest thing to do is not to play with it to much.

 

[jordan3548]

About a year ago I tried adding a UV sterilizer to my tank. And yeah that didn't go to well I lost alot of zoas don't that. Maybe I shocked them who knows. By the way what's considered dirty water? I do water changes once every 3-4 months and keep any coral I want including sps I think its all about consistency. I've never changed my routine and i keep what ever I want the one time I tried I almost lost alot of stuff

 

[jordan3548]

I like to keep my reef's in balance using the building blocks of life, in this order. sunlight(as close as we can get with gas fixture's), O2, H2o, Co2 and No3. Plus all the vitamins & minerals in trace amounts. The hardest thing to do is not to play with it to much.

Just wondering do you realize you have your whom address near your username and everyone sees it?

 

[jordan3548]

Whole****

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

LOL^^

I wouldn't consider my water truly dirty but I still use the term dirty water because its all relative and sometimes it feels like my water is dirty to me just like I may consider myself dirty but I am not actually soiled. I feel like it means higher nutrients and higher organics. If you take the term literally of course it is negative. If there was a lot of dirt in the water it could settle out on the corals kind of like boat traffic in a bay causing sediment buildup on corals from the props turning in the shallow water. So I use a scale of dirty water, average water quality, and ULNS. Dirty water should be replaced with the term 'higher nutrient' water for sure. Higher nutrient, average water quality, and ULNS.

 

[johnanddawn]

i stopped dosing vodka because i don't believe ulns are healthy - case in point; i had a short power outage that devistated my tank - the corals looked nice but were somehow very fragile
since stopping i had a far worse power outage (i was out of town and didn't get the flow back to my tank for more then twice as long as the previous one) and did not lose a coral
there is an obvious balance point that may not be so obvious to find, but you know when you have it - or at least your corals do

i have zero algae and even my cheato grows quite slowly but am able to feed both my fish and corals as much as i want because of the nature of my system and its multiple fuges

if your talking about an optimum aproach i believe it would be something like this: being able to dump tons of nutrients into a system and then having the fish, corals, microlife and sponges, skimmer, fuges and other export means that are capable of removing them completly very quickly - before repeating and the more often you can do that the better. so in effect although there is alot of foodstuff both live and prepared added to the system it isn't residual or built up in the water
this is my goal anyway.... so no i don't buy the dirty water theory or the ulns but actually both at the same time

 

[AcroholicReefer]

I have had years of experience trying to achieve optimal growth with different genus of corals in different environments. There seems to be a little bit of confusion with the terminology. Instead of dirty water, think of it like water with lots of life, or high concentration of zoaplankton.

Waste from the fish feeds the algae -> The algae feeds the pods, crustaceans, and other small invertebrates -> The gametes from these animals provide food for the coral -> and the circle of life continues.

Just like in all forms of life, there is a competition for surface area in our aquariums. Too much bacteria can slow growth due to the decrease in the amount of available surface area. Too little bacteria and growth is slowed due to the lack of an adequate food source.

On the Microscopic level, when small calcium particles collide with our corals, it creates new surface area for the tissue to grow over. The tissue has to compete with other bacteria in order to be able to optimally grow.

The amount of life in aquarium water is commonly measured to alkalinity levels, with respect to carbonate.

HTH

 

[nixer]

I dont buy the dirty water thing either but there is a fine line between clean water and starving your corals. The balance between good feeding and good husbandry will defeat the dirty water debate all day.

what do you think feeding your corals do? it adds organics for them to eat. the same organics that occur naturally in the tank

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Frankly ... a much too clean water system would starve some corals of "good" nutrients thus the addition of artificial nutrients to simulate natural food to a certain extent.

It's a tough choice to debate ... dirty vs. clean water. Some may or may not work in one's closed system ... mixed reef, strictly LPS & Softies or only SPS. Some say you can't keep SPS together with LPS/Softies ... but what about others with their successful mixed reef?

As for my future set up system ... I am going to go with good RO/DI, good calcium reactor, lighting system and good husbandry. Plain and simple. Just forget about the Balling method, ZeoVit etc. as I find it's too much work and all I want to see is to maintain the growth and longetivity of the corals ... PERIOD!

Paul

 

[WesF]

I have 2 tanks. A low nutrient "clean" system and a high nutrient "dirty" system with a DSB, no GFO, and minimal waterchanges.

SPS, Acans, Chalices, Favias do well in the "clean" tank while zoanthids, ricordia, and other softies do better in the "dirty" tank.

 

[florida reef]

How does one keep nitrates 10-15 but phosphates 0? My only guess would be the use of GFO or some other type of phosphate removing media?

 

[shred5]

I agree with Paul

I am at work right now and extremely busy and could write allot on this but it really depends on the coral. Not all zoa's or lps like dirty water but some do. Some frogspawns come from deep water channels in heavy muck and do better there and actually most come from there because they are easy to collect.. Some zoas come from higher nutrient waters where they grow right along with lots of caulerpa and some come from very shallow water with low nutrients. Again you have to look at each coral separately and have different requirements for nutrient levels and lighting. They grow in the wild where they prefer to grow and that’s why they are there. Sometimes you will see a coral outside it realm but usually it is not doing as good or you see less dense populations in that area.

Dave Polzin

 

[seareefrun]

Just wondering do you realize you have your whom address near your username and everyone sees it?

Yes, reefer's that live near me come by after we set up a time and buy my rock (fully growing with tropical starfish,etc) and chaeto as it overgrows my sumps. Sometimes I trade as new un-cured rock is needed for my tanks bio system to grow and not choke off the water balance.

 

[myzislow]

LOL^^

I wouldn't consider my water truly dirty but I still use the term dirty water because its all relative and sometimes it feels like my water is dirty to me just like I may consider myself dirty but I am not actually soiled. I feel like it means higher nutrients and higher organics. If you take the term literally of course it is negative. If there was a lot of dirt in the water it could settle out on the corals kind of like boat traffic in a bay causing sediment buildup on corals from the props turning in the shallow water. So I use a scale of dirty water, average water quality, and ULNS. Dirty water should be replaced with the term 'higher nutrient' water for sure. Higher nutrient, average water quality, and ULNS.

Very well put and I agree 100%

I have a skimmerless 22g cadlights that I house a lot of acro frags from my display. For the longest time all that resided in there was a single Dotttyback and some snails...I fed the tank maybe 1-2 times a week if that(dottyback is fine, grubbed on natural fauna in between feedings). I dosed it by hand each day and still do...Well after 3-4 months of hardly any feedings all of my colors began looking extremely pale and waaaay to light for my liking. They had that look to them like they were "starving" for some nutrient in the water. Well I began feeding heavily and added a pair of sunburst skunk clowns, adding even more nutrient to the water and low and behold within a few weeks the colors are now thicker and better than they ever were......Nothing else has changed and to top if off this tank is still skimmerless, and has been without a real water change in longer than I can honestly remember.

I do believe your water can be too "clean" for adequate coral growth and coloration..Corals need some nutrients in the water, it's just finding the right balance that works for YOUR tank that can be difficult. Also, you must remember that what works for somebody else may or may not work for you...

 

[shred5]

Frankly ... a much too clean water system would starve some corals of "good" nutrients thus the addition of artificial nutrients to simulate natural food to a certain extent.

mixed reef, strictly LPS & Softies or only SPS. Some say you can't keep SPS together with LPS/Softies ... but what about others with their successful mixed reef?Paul

Honestly this has more to do with light and current than nutrients even though they do play a part. Also low nutrients is really not a problem for most reefers it’s the other side of the coin. Most sps require much more current that would rip some lps and softies apart, also coral Allelopathy all which in most case can be overcome. So basically it comes back to nutrients? LOL

As for my future set up system ... I am going to go with good RO/DI, good calcium reactor, lighting system and good husbandry. Plain and simple. Just forget about the Balling method, ZeoVit etc. as I find it's too much work and all I want to see is to maintain the growth and longetivity of the corals ... PERIOD!

Paul

I really like too see this. People use to many of these other things as crutches like bio pellets. They are always looking for a magic potion.. The more things you rely on the greater chance of something failing and cause a partial or full crash and its far cheaper. People buy stuff and do not even understand how they work or the biology behind it. Most of the people who stay in the hobby the longest are people who use your approach..


Question to all.. Why would a coral grow in higher nutrients? What’s the purpose. Most coral produce enough waste to support the zooxanthellae?

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Honestly this has more to do with light and current than nutrients even though they do play a part. Also low nutrients is really not a problem for most reefers it’s the other side of the coin. Most sps require much more current that would rip some lps and softies apart, also coral Allelopathy all which in most case can be overcome. So basically it comes back to nutrients? LOL

I had a hunch not adding "water current" was gonna come back and bite my hiney ... :cry:

Paul

 

[Lynnmw1208]

I'm not sure where my tank stands as for as clean or dirty. I run a very simple system: GFO/carbon reactor, skimmer, cheato and that's it. My nitrates and phosphates are 0 or unreadable by tests. So far all of my corals have been growing great; this includes LPS, zoanthids, ricordia and SPS corals. I started them all as little frags and the growth has been significant. Everyone seems happy in my tank and I don't do anything special. I do a 30 gallon water change every month, not every week like some. I don't have any algae in the tank besides the film algae on the glass and my cheato grows moderately as I prune once a month.

Here are some pics:

4/9/2011

8/6/2011

4/30/2011

8/6/2011

5/19/2011

8/6/2011

4/30/2011

8/6/2011