Disadvantages of QT?

[Reefbuds]

So recently I have realized something I've seen over and over here on R2R. I feel like at least half of the post I see relating to QT regard the fish getting sick after entering. Not the fish being sick and being put into QT. It's almost like the fish are being put into a hospital even tho they are not sick, only to make them sick through excessive meds and stress. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with QT, of course. It seems to me like there is a lot more consequences to QTing a perfectly healthy fish than advantages.
Just today I saw another post where a healthy fish was QTd and is now not eating and extremely stressed out, possibly to the point of exertion.
I know a lot of people QT but I'm sure a large percentage of the fish QTd do not need it and suffer from it, even die.
Just something I've noticed and figure id pass along.
Thoughts?
Like I said, nothing against QT at all, just an observation made over an extensive period of time.

 

[Old Fritz]

So yes it is true that sometimes when you qt a fish they may not take to meds that well. However the reason you qt and treat them is because you kinda want to treat them like the plague. A good way of thinking in the hobby that has saved me tons of money is thinking that all of your fish have ich, velvet, flukes (which are in my opinion the most common diseases).When you treat them that way you may lose one every once in a while, but if you just throw it directly into your display tank and it has velvet for instance then instead of treating one fish, you are treating every fish in your tank and the potential to lose more than one fish a pretty high.

For instance one time I was about to go on vacation and I decided to throw my new clowns into my display tank because I know where the fish come from and I trusted the guy, and I didn't want to stress my neighbor out with dosing medications. I then come back from vacation to half of my fish in that tank dead and the rest covered in velvet. so what could've been a like 30 dollar lose ( it was a auriga) turned into a couple hundred dollar lose. Whereas a tank, cheap filter, prazipro, and copper typically will cost you at most 100 bucks. It is also harder to treat a tank with live rock and inverts because some medication is toxic to those or will get absorbed by the live rock, which makes treating a big hassle. That's why most people here qt and why I qt. I used to not qt and just play it safe with the fish I added but I still would end up with ich or velvet which was such a pain.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

i have done it both ways and i promise you i will not put a fish in my main tank without QT.
I have a 50 gal tank as qt and it works well with any fish.
QT just means to keep it separated for a number of days till either it shows sign of disease or it doesnt and moves on.
I dont treat any fish with medicine without proper id of disease.
Yes i do treat all fish with prazipro which can cure internal parasites, which are unseen and sometime undetected till too late.
Prazipro if used properly with enough flow and air exchange is not harsh on fish.
Only fish i do treat with a harsher medicine is TANGS. they go through either CP or copper depending on species. they are knon magnets for ich vevelt etc.
Yes a small size qt or overall shipping, and changes in sg temp pH ets can cause stress but in long run its well worth the effort in qt than having to tear down the main tank.
Without QT its like playing russian roulette. you will be safe 5 times and sixth will be your last.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

There are advantages and disadvantages to everything. I am a big advocate of QT, but of course there are space, time, cost, research, and patience requirements that come along with operating a QT system. Not QTing stuff has advantages in nearly every respect..... until you add a fish with marine velvet to an otherwise unexposed population and everything dies in about 5 days flat. Then the disadvantage of not QTing becomes very apparent in a hurry.

 

[pshootr]

So yes it is true that sometimes when you qt a fish they may not take to meds that well. However the reason you qt and treat them is because you kinda want to treat them like the plague. A good way of thinking in the hobby that has saved me tons of money is thinking that all of your fish have ich, velvet, flukes (which are in my opinion the most common diseases).When you treat them that way you may lose one every once in a while, but if you just throw it directly into your display tank and it has velvet for instance then instead of treating one fish, you are treating every fish in your tank and the potential to lose more than one fish a pretty high.

For instance one time I was about to go on vacation and I decided to throw my new clowns into my display tank because I know where the fish come from and I trusted the guy, and I didn't want to stress my neighbor out with dosing medications. I then come back from vacation to half of my fish in that tank dead and the rest covered in velvet. so what could've been a like 30 dollar lose ( it was a auriga) turned into a couple hundred dollar lose. Whereas a tank, cheap filter, prazipro, and copper typically will cost you at most 100 bucks. It is also harder to treat a tank with live rock and inverts because some medication is toxic to those or will get absorbed by the live rock, which makes treating a big hassle. That's why most people here qt and why I qt. I used to not qt and just play it safe with the fish I added but I still would end up with ich or velvet which was such a pain.

Exactly. It is a matter of protecting the fish you already have. As well as protecting your investment. If you have $1000.00 or more invested. As well as countless hours invested. Then why would you jeopardize all of that for one fish...

 

[Tamberav]

Mine go into a cycled QT with live rock and macroalgae. I treat with prazipro and remove macro and use CP if needed. Can remove the rock I suppose if i needed copper.

I can overfeed in a tank like this and fish thrive and get conditioned for the DT. Pods and microfauna exist here.

I feel this is the best of both worlds for both my new fish and the fish in the DT.

Here is a recent video of my QT tank. I had removed about a gallon of macro algae before the video. This is only days after them being shipped... They are being conditioned to frozen food and a new light schedule. Obviously they are not in distress and are a bit finicky type of fish to get started.

If you are worried about stressing new fish out just change up the way you QT.

 

[pshootr]

Mine go into a cycled QT with live rock and macroalgae. I treat with prazipro and remove macro and use CP if needed. Can remove the rock I suppose if i needed copper.

I can overfeed in a tank like this and fish thrive and get conditioned for the DT. Pods and microfauna exist here.

I feel this is the best of both worlds for both my new fish and the fish in the DT.

Here is a recent video of my QT tank. I had removed about a gallon of macro algae before the video. This is only days after them being shipped... They are being conditioned to frozen food and a new light schedule. Obviously they are not in distress and are a bit finicky type of fish to get started.

If you are worried about stressing new fish out just change up the way you QT.

I really like this approach. The only thing that concerns me, is that some fish can carry parasites without showing symptoms.

So in a bad case. You may introduce a healthy looking fish to the DT. And then bam! Other fish start showing symptoms.

And then they all need treated in Copper. And the DT has to go follow. Yikes

 

[pshootr]

If you have 2 qt tanks. Then you can treat with copper for only 14 days. And then move them over to the second (sterile) qt and treat with prazipro. This will minimize the stress from copper.

Also, raising the copper levels up to therapeutic over three days helps. Your 14 day period must start after therapeutic levels are reached.

 

[Tamberav]

I really like this approach. The only thing that concerns me, is that some fish can carry parasites without showing symptoms.

So in a bad case. You may introduce a healthy looking fish to the DT. And then bam! Other fish start showing symptoms.

And then they all need treated in Copper. And the DT has to go follow.

True but by the time they leave QT....velvet and brook chances are nill. MAYBE ich could make it through but I have never once had an issue doing it this way. When I had an angel I left it in QT for 8 weeks.. Ich magnets! It's easy since the tank is cycled... And I treated ich with CP with rock successfully so thats an option.

 

[pshootr]

True but by the time they leave QT....velvet and brook chances are nill. MAYBE ich could make it through but I have never once had an issue doing it this way. When I had an angel I left it in QT for 8 weeks.. Ich magnets!

Yes indeed. Ick could make its way into your tank this way. That is a whole can of worms that you don't want to deal with.

 

[pshootr]

Having to catch all of my fish from the DT, and put them all in Hospital tanks. And then let the tank go follow, would be a nightmare for me. I am willing to take steps to prevent that.

 

[Tamberav]

Yes indeed. Ick could make its way into your tank this way. That is a whole can of worms that you don't want to deal with.

CP treats ich with my method.. I had two fish in QT show up with ich and treated them successfully without issue. Did not seem to absorb this med like copper.. So that is an option for anyone that treats regardless of symptoms and my understanding is it treats velvet and brook too. Other meds I used with rock was kanaplex and metroplex and furan 2 for a Damsel that showed up in shipping box with open sores.

Once the meds were removed macro had no problem growing again (cp kills algae). Macro isn't needed at all though and I would consider that optional.

10 years and never had ich... Velvet or brook in my DT. Only prazi resistant flukes made it through.


CP isn't easy to source but I got some from my vet.

 

[pshootr]

I treat with prazipro and remove macro and use CP if needed. Can remove the rock I suppose if i needed copper.

Because some fish can have parasites without showing symptoms. I am wondering how can you determine if CP is needed in theses cases?

I understand you have at least it fairly good shot with this method. But there is still a fair chance of introducing ick. Because not all affected fish show symptoms.

Having said this. I am very happy that you have had such great luck. I just don't feel that lucky [emoji16]

 

[pshootr]

Kind of like how a certain percentage of animals can carry rabies without it affecting them. However they can still pass it along to you.

 

[Tamberav]

Because some fish can have parasites without showing symptoms. I am wondering how can you determine if CP is needed in theses cases?

I understand you have at least it fairly good shot with this method. But there is still a fair chance of introducing ick. Because not all affected fish show symptoms.

Having said this. I am very happy that you have had such great luck. I just don't feel that lucky [emoji16]

You could treat every fish with CP to be safe.

I don't but if I had larger tanks with tangs... And just numerous fish in general...I would.

 

[ca1ore]

The question of whether to treat or just observe is a long debated one; doesn't invalidate QT of course, simply a choice each of us makes based on acceptance of risk. I've long been an observer; only treating once symptoms emerge. As to the original point of the thread, fish getting sick after being added to a quarantine tank, there is really no way for the tank to contain disease if you clean and dry the tank after each use (as you should in most cases). Much more likely that that disease was present and the stress of shipping just revealed it. Also, keep in mind that QT is for much more than just disease management; it also allows for a low stress acclimation and the ability to get a new fish eating and back to a healthy weight so it has a better chance of competing in the display.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

If you have money to burn then don't QT. Like Simon mentioned its about catching disease before it enters the DT and also having a low stress environment for the fish to get acclimated to aquarium life and also start accepting prepared foods with gusto while not having to fight the more mature fish for food in the DT. Most diseases that get into the DT can't be cured without a complete break down of the tank which could be decades of money, time, and effort that is thrown away because someone was lazy and didn't QT. Most QT setups cost less than $100 which is a drop in the bucket compared to the sometimes 10's of thousands that can be wrapped up in a tank.

 

[Reefbuds]

Great responses everyone. Gives me a little more insight into the QT process and other valid points of the process as well, that do not concern medication. I could imagine a lot of fish would enjoy this after a stressful shipping, although I still feel like a lot would like to be put back into a comfortable natural DT as soon as possible. Just goes to show the vast differences in approach this hobby has now. I know people who have never QT and have never had problems with disease, maybe they are just incredibly lucky tho. I also see time and time again where people have QT and had extreme success. I feel like both methods may be successful as long as you stick to it.

 

[ca1ore]

although I still feel like a lot would like to be put back into a comfortable natural DT as soon as possible

Maybe that is true …. maybe it is not. My display is full of knife-wielding psychopaths whose sole purpose is to shred newcomers.

I know people who have never QT and have never had problems with disease, maybe they are just incredibly lucky tho.

Yeah, well, ask to see their tank …. LOL. I am sure there are some, but more often than not something gets them.

 

[PDR]

This is something I really struggle with. I see so many threads where people kill fish after fish in QT. Some of them do it wrong, (overdose meds, oxygen issues, ammonia issues, etc.) and other seems to do it right but still have what seems like an unusually high death rate.

I have never preventatively quarantined any fish. Between the 6 reef tanks I have had, I have purchased about 60-70 fish. I think I have had 1 DOA (a chromis from LA) and 6-7 that died within a week of being added. Most of those were in really rough shape from shipping and just never recovered. Outside of those, I have had 1 fish die from old age, 2 from wasting away (within the first 2 months of adding), 3 jumpers, and 3 mystery deaths (all established fish with no visible signs of disease, infection, parasite, etc.)

So out of all of those, quarantining would have maybe prevented 5 of those deaths, maybe not. I tend to think I would have killed many more than that if I would have put everything through qt and subsequent disease treatment. My tank has ich in it (and who knows what else), new arrivals usually show 3-4 spots on their fins within a week of being added then I never see it again.

I can't figure out if I'm just really lucky and have never come across the really bad diseases or if I'm doing something right. I know quarantining is the safest bet, but like I already said, I feel like I would have killed many more fish if I had.

Needless to say, I'm torn.