Disappointing PAR Readings - New Lights Needed?

[saltyfilmfolks]

IMO, don't force it. don't change too much at one. its such a young tank right now.
IMO you don't need to lower the DKH, it'll drop itself.
skip a water change or two or three, the alk will drop naturally and the no3 will build.
your using a high alk salt with low nutrients. you can afford to skip imo.
Don't change your light yet, or just do it slowly.
Take the long view.

 

[Ibn]

Feed the tank more and then just wait until the nitrates shows up on your test kit as you're letting your alk drop.

As for the lights and PAR readings, reevaluate that after the nitrates and alk adjustments. You'll most likely have to bump your whites up to squeeze more PAR out of those lights, which isn't a big deal, unless you really enjoy the bluish look of the tank. I run an older LED setup than yours and my sandbed gets hit with 100-200 PAR depending on the spot (hotspots from old LEDs). Quite a few don't mind it on the sandbed and really depends on what you want to keep. PAR readings were measured with an Apogee MQ-200 throughout the day and there was a less than a 10% difference in either direction (+/- <10% from these figures).

BC Spainbow in 140 PAR

ASD Rainbow Table in 125 PAR

Mystic sunset in 100 PAR

Sunset monti in 135 PAR where the lights hits it (you can see it's in the shadow of the Tonga overhang).

TCK Lightning Bolt in 137 PAR

 

[hart24601]

Devils advocate, I prefer the look of my tank with reefbreeder photon v2 over radions.

My cube looks much better with photon V2 over gen 3 radions, I was shocked at the difference.

 

[Velcro]

My cube looks much better with photon V2 over gen 3 radions, I was shocked at the difference.

It was a very easy decision for me when choosing which LEDs to go with Bang for buck is ridiculous and coverage is about one billion times better than radions.

 

[Torqued]

agree with other people about your alk

9+ is too high. It seems the nutrients factoring in that is a new conclusion, but I agree there seems to be a correlation between high alk and low nutrients = dead sps

I have no idea why that is, but I used to run my alk about 7.5 as well with very low nutrients, and if my alk got too high, I got burned tips on all my acros. My canary in the coal mine was my birds nests. The sharp tips on that coral would burn very easy. Most other acros like stags and such were a bit more resistant so if you saw burning tips on those, your in deep doo doo

 

[SashimiTurtle]

9+ is too high. It seems the nutrients factoring in that is a new conclusion, but I agree there seems to be a correlation between high alk and low nutrients = dead sps

I think it has something to do with mashing the gas pedal with no oil in the engine. BRS has a Dana Riddle video on their channel about the light/alk/flow/nutrient balance and why its important.

 

[justingraham]

Yea I would let ur alk drop on it's on and switch to either the blue bucket or fritz that mixes at that level. If u do want more pop as far as par I still stand by what I said in ur build thread of adding four t-4s I would also turn up ur return flow from 3-6 esp if u want to have sps u will want that extra flow. But I think flow is more important then light when it comes to growing sps. Ur doing great and as far as ur tank being young and not being able to grow sps throu that old wives tail to the curb u will learn from this and then have an amazing tank I know it

Justin

 

[dmw913]

Thank you, thank you, and thank you again to everyone for their thoughtful comments and support.

UPDATE: I took the middle of the road approach. I bought some Seachem buffer and knocked the dKH down slightly to 8.6. I'll let it drop on its own and skip my water change this week to get the NO3 up a little. I'll also slow down on the filter sock changes which have been done every 3 days religiously.

As for the lights, I'm going to keep researching but I think the consensus is to hang with what I have, get the chemistry more in line and reevaluate with a tester piece or 2.

WAY BETTER UPDATE: Bought my MACNA pass and plane ticket today!!!!!!

 

[zsuzsu]

Do your reef and yourself a favor, if you're really serious about sps, then go t5 or halide or both. period..... zsu

 

[Joe Batt]

The Nitrates vs dKh is interesting. I run my tank at around 9.2 dKh and Nitrates around 2. Seems to be fine, no burnt tips etc. Is there any links and research on dKh vs No3 ratios?

 

[Velcro]

Do your reef and yourself a favor, if you're really serious about sps, then go t5 or halide or both. period..... zsu

One of the best coral propagators (battlecorals) swears by the photon v2 units UNSUPPLEMENTED for growth and color and he is running halide and t5 on other tanks with the same colonies. I believe they are even on the same water. I took his advice to try them and switched from an 8bulb ATI and guess what. The same if not better color on my SPS and my alk demand has gone up over the last 1+ months that I've been using them.

 

[Gil03]

Even if the PAR numbers you mentioned were accurate your corals would be fine with those numbers. Your tank is really really young still so to start talking about the lightings affect on your coral IMO would be premature considering your tank age. Keep your tank parameters in check and consistent and your corals will be fine with that PAR.

 

[justingraham]

I

Do your reef and yourself a favor, if you're really serious about sps, then go t5 or halide or both. period..... zsu

I disagree with this I run metal halides but I disagree totally

just look into wwc battle corals unique corals all running leds also Joe in manhatten just switched his reef over to leds Sanjay mike palletta even that reef over across the pound in London that was featured in coral magazine is running leds

To say that is wrong information totally wrong information. And I love metal halides but corals can grow under anything on the market right now.

 

[justingraham]

One of the best coral propagators (battlecorals) swears by the photon v2 units UNSUPPLEMENTED for growth and color and he is running halide and t5 on other tanks with the same colonies. I believe they are even on the same water. I took his advice to try them and switched from an 8bulb ATI and guess what. The same if not better color on my SPS and my alk demand has gone up over the last 1+ months that I've been using them.

Hey maby this isn't the place for this but I was reading somewhere that people with leds have a harder time growing coraline have u noticed that after the switch? Cause if so the alk demand for ur tank is prolly for just the corals

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hey maby this isn't the place for this but I was reading somewhere that people with leds have a harder time growing coraline have u noticed that after the switch? Cause if so the alk demand for ur tank is prolly for just the corals

Threres an interesting convo on corraline here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/rocks-arent-turning-purple.311831/

 

[Water Dog]

Although I'm breaking down my Biocube for an upgrade, I ran a Nanobox Retro with mostly SPS and they did great. Also, after seeding with coralline scrapings from a friend's tank, I had coralline algae all over the place. So much so that I had to vinegar soak and scrub my MP10 wet sides every couple of months to keep them free of the purple stuff.

 

[zsuzsu]

I

I disagree with this I run metal halides but I disagree totally

just look into wwc battle corals unique corals all running leds also Joe in manhatten just switched his reef over to leds Sanjay mike palletta even that reef over across the pound in London that was featured in coral magazine is running leds

To say that is wrong information totally wrong information. And I love metal halides but corals can grow under anything on the market right now.

yes you can grow coral with leds you just need an $800 radion for every square foot over your reef. thats fine for the pros they dont pay for there stuff. i have radions, g3s and g4s, they work but nothing like t5s and halides, i guess if i get 5 or 6 of them and put them over a 90 gallon it might work.

 

[Velcro]

yes you can grow coral with leds you just need an $800 radion for every square foot over your reef. thats fine for the pros they dont pay for there stuff. i have radions, g3s and g4s, they work but nothing like t5s and halides, i guess if i get 5 or 6 of them and put them over a 90 gallon it might work.

Once again, you don't have to buy the name brand nonsense.

 

[dmw913]

Thank you all for continuing to keep this an interesting discussion! There will always be folks with strong beliefs/preferences for all different types of lighting. I think the best part of this hobby is that with effort/research/time and attention, you can make a lot of different things work.

In response to the couple of comments that the light levels may be fine, I respect that opinion. The par levels aren't terrible but they aren't great either. However, upon upping the light intensity/photoperiod and changing nothing else other than the dKh yesterday, I have seen a marked increase in coral coloration and it was almost immediate. While I am open to there being another explanation, I'm having a hard time coming up with one. In any event, the coral are perking up and that's what matters. I'll run a full set of params tomorrow and post the numbers.

Thanks to all of you!

 

[justingraham]

yes you can grow coral with leds you just need an $800 radion for every square foot over your reef. thats fine for the pros they dont pay for there stuff. i have radions, g3s and g4s, they work but nothing like t5s and halides, i guess if i get 5 or 6 of them and put them over a 90 gallon it might work.

Going back to ur original comment u said to just go t-5 or halide to do ur sps a favor.

No where in that statement did u say anything about money being a factor. U said that the best lights for sps are halides and t-5s which is very wrong. And considering she already has lights she wanted to know how to make hers work for her.

You don't know the pros get there's for free either. And not all leds are created equally black boxes work and at 100 dollars that's cheaper then any metal halide or t-5 out there.

And also if you factor in everything the upfront cost of a halide is cheaper but if u add up power consumption and replacing the bulbs at least once a year in three years that's about the cost of a radion.

Plus not everyone likes the look of halides or the inability to adjust the colors. personally I like that as it's one thing I can't mess with but some people love the sunrise sunset features the ability to adjust on the fly and to them it's worth the extra money.

And now to the op I'm glad everything has turned around so fast for you. I hope it continues for ya I still would recomend at least a two bulb t-5 add on for four to six hours a day as there is a certain pop u get that can't be replicated with leds. Plus it will get u closer to the 200 par. Brs sells a two pack for I wanna say around a hundred dollars so it isn't putting a hole in ur wallet. Or search on the sales thread on here as I have seen them go for less then a hundred with the bulbs included.