Disastrous day!

[Gordi]

Hi, I haven't posted on here for a while because everything has been going well in the tank and I can get most of the answers to my queries from previous posts ( so, again, thanks for being here) .
Everything was going well as the tank passed it's first birthday but on Saturday morning, just after a 20% water change the fish started behaving unusually. I tested for ammonia right away and the reading was off the scale.
The only survivors now are two springer damsels, one of the clownfish and the firefish which means I've lost a pyjama cardinal, the mandarin, a clownfish and the hated royal dotty back. Ammonia levels coming back down and, bearing in mind the survivors, what can I restock without causing any aggression problems?
I also got a speeding ticket through my door on Saturday morning (about $130 fine).
Not a great day.

 

[Lavey29]

What caused the original ammonia spike that lead to the fish deaths? You said right after a water change? Was your RODI bad with your mix?

 

[Gordi]

Thanks for replying. I have no idea what caused the spike unless I disturbed something already dead in the rocks but I couldn't see anything. Salinity was fine at around 1024 both before and after the water change. (I always use the same water from the LFS and mix my own using Brightwell. I'm worried now because I can't see any of the suspected dead fish (I only got the clownfish out) . All the inverts and corals are fine.

 

[i cant think]

Thanks for replying. I have no idea what caused the spike unless I disturbed something already dead in the rocks but I couldn't see anything. Salinity was fine at around 1024 both before and after the water change. (I always use the same water from the LFS and mix my own using Brightwell. I'm worried now because I can't see any of the suspected dead fish (I only got the clownfish out) . All the inverts and corals are fine.

What test kits are you using?

 

[Gordi]

I use RedSea reef care kits.

 

[Projects with Sam]

Sorry for your losses.
Could the others still be alive just hiding?
What leads you to believe they're dead without carcasses?

 

[Gordi]

Thanks again for the reply. I just assume they're dead because they're always so visible.
And finding a dead clownfish.

 

[Projects with Sam]

My fish get spooked sometimes and disappear for days at a time. Then they realized to ignore my kids...

 

[N1tew0lf1212]

Sometimes i freak out as well thinking my watchman has finally escaped and taken the plunge and then the next day there he is looking at me like dam he still knows im in here. How big is the tank and is there quite a few hiding places.

 

[Gordi]

Hi, it's a 50 gallon tank with plenty of caves and cover. It's a corner tank so even on a good day it's difficult to see anything in the rocks at the back.

 

[N1tew0lf1212]

Maybe give a day or two and see what might come out of the rock work. During those couple days test ammonia nitrates for sure to see if you catch anymore spikes. How high was ammonia when you noticed everything? How substantial is you cuc? And what do you have for it. Ive heard some stories where a fish doesnt make it through the night to be bones by the next morning but not sure if this would be one of those situations. I really hope not. So sorry for your losses i know a lot of people will say this but you able to get your own rodi system? Mixing your own water will help rule out human error for anything in the future from lfs. I myself had to dump a full 5 gal jug that was way off on all specs and glad i tested it before my wc or i could have suffered the same fate.

 

[Gordi]

I'll keep testing until I'm satisfied that the levels are all okay. The water used came from the same batch as the previous change 4 days earlier so I presume that was okay.
As regards getting my own system, we're on a water meter here in the UK so we pay for what we use and our water is so full of chemicals that there is approximately 80% wastage.
CUC is approximately 20 snails and six red legged hermits

 

[Gordi]

Well, that was quick! Ammonia and nitrite levels back to zero. It's like Freddie Krueger crept in, murdered 4 fish and left quickly!!!
How soon should I add another Clownfish as the survivor seems lost? Or can it ever be done?

 

[N1tew0lf1212]

Well, that was quick! Ammonia and nitrite levels back to zero. It's like Freddie Krueger crept in, murdered 4 fish and left quickly!!!
How soon should I add another Clownfish as the survivor seems lost? Or can it ever be done?

It can be how old and big is the other and you will have to be watching as bullying can happen and if the last two were paired it might not happen due to aggression. I would be slow adding fish and continue to watch levels. I know it hurts amd you want to get back to normal but without knowing what happened there is no sense in rushing it. Be patient and add slowly. Clowns are pretty hardy so you could start there make sure the next clown is substantially smaller....

 

[N1tew0lf1212]

Well, that was quick! Ammonia and nitrite levels back to zero. It's like Freddie Krueger crept in, murdered 4 fish and left quickly!!!
How soon should I add another Clownfish as the survivor seems lost? Or can it ever be done?

It can be how old and big is the other and you will have to be watching as bullying can happen and if the last two were paired it might not happen due to aggression. I would be slow adding fish and continue to watch levels. I know it hurts amd you want to get back to normal but without knowing what happened there is no sense in rushing it. Be patient and add slowly. Clowns are pretty hardy so you could start there make sure the next clown is substantially smaller....

 

[brandon429]

disease preps were skipped, highest % of losses manifest around 8 mos or so per the disease forum--> disease sets in, kills a fish, you never had ammonia issues you had disease issues. ammonia doesn't drift out of spec in a year old reef, and a year old reef won't be felled in ammonia control by a lost snail or small animal. our tanks can specifically handle bumps of ammonia and those resolve in 5 mins, but not on a non digital nh4 kit like the one used here


seneye would show a different picture regarding ammonia

skip disease>dead fish>then a loss cascade caused by rotting fish isn't a primary ammonia control issue. never confuse a cycling issue (ammonia control) with a disease issue that is preventable pretty much, given the careful preps from the fish disease forum. list quarantine and fallow preps here / helps get clues

are new animals bought from a pet store, and then added to this reef slowly over time?

 

[Timfish]

Sorry for your loss!

I'd worry something got in the tank that killed your fish and the ammonia spike was a secondary issue and not the prime issue. Was it possible something was sprayed in the room that might have gotten in the tank? Just out of paranoia I'd run some carbon for a few days.

 

[Gordi]

disease preps were skipped, highest % of losses manifest around 8 mos or so per the disease forum--> disease sets in, kills a fish, you never had ammonia issues you had disease issues. ammonia doesn't drift out of spec in a year old reef, and a year old reef won't be felled in ammonia control by a lost snail or small animal. our tanks can specifically handle bumps of ammonia and those resolve in 5 mins, but not on a non digital nh4 kit like the one used here


seneye would show a different picture regarding ammonia

skip disease>dead fish>then a loss cascade caused by rotting fish isn't a primary ammonia control issue. never confuse a cycling issue (ammonia control) with a disease issue that is preventable pretty much, given the careful preps from the fish disease forum. list quarantine and fallow preps here / helps get clues

are new animals bought from a pet store, and then added to this reef slowly over time?

The only new thing added was a zoa about 3 weeks ago which is thriving. If it was a disease it happened right before my eyes about 5 or 10 minutes after a water change and affected all the fish except one springer damsel. Thankfully the firefish, one clown, both springers and all the inverts and corals survived whatever happened. All parameters now back to normal after treating with bacteria balls and water changes.

 

[brandon429]

you didn't have a bacteria problem though. The issue was adding fish without prep in the last year; agreed the zoanthid added is a minor risk in addition to prior disease risks. this info comes to you from the fish disease forum...not making it up. per that forum we can't skip all manner of disease prep, lose fish, and then immediately rule out fish disease.


reading in the disease forum routinely shows water changes as outbreak triggers. you had nothing such as an ammonia issue where bacteria were in short supply and needed. it's a feel-good product people dose.

agreed a water change can help if there was a contaminant, but we don't have any contaminants listed that got into your tank. disease is the standout loss cause factor, coming from the disease forum and no preps ran on this mixed species tank. it doesn't mean you'll lose more to disease, it just means until you prep for disease that will be your most likely cause of future fish losses as well.

post tank pics if you will, we can see areas of black toxicity in the sand, or rule them out etc

100% of loss analysis threads need a clear tank picture to assess things like surface area, aging details, stocking density in the tank, all unstated factors.

posting params doesn't help much, folks aren't using calibrated digital measures by and large.

 

[Gordi]

you didn't have a bacteria problem though. The issue was adding fish without prep in the last year; agreed the zoanthid added is a minor risk in addition to prior disease risks. this info comes to you from the fish disease forum...not making it up. per that forum we can't skip all manner of disease prep, lose fish, and then immediately rule out fish disease.


reading in the disease forum routinely shows water changes as outbreak triggers. you had nothing such as an ammonia issue where bacteria were in short supply and needed. it's a feel-good product people dose.

agreed a water change can help if there was a contaminant, but we don't have any contaminants listed that got into your tank. disease is the standout loss cause factor, coming from the disease forum and no preps ran on this mixed species tank. it doesn't mean you'll lose more to disease, it just means until you prep for disease that will be your most likely cause of future fish losses as well.

post tank pics if you will, we can see areas of black toxicity in the sand, or rule them out etc

100% of loss analysis threads need a clear tank picture to assess things like surface area, aging details, stocking density in the tank, all unstated factors.

posting params doesn't help much, folks aren't using calibrated digital measures by and large.