Disease of Some Sort??

[CanadianReefer]

I wondered about the Ich-X products. My LFS called me "old school" yesterday when I told them I was using copper, but it really doesn't seem like there's a lot of effective alternatives. I've heard freshwater baths and hyposalinity may help too, but copper still seems to be the best. My poor orangeback fairy wrasse was COVERED in Ich this morning, despite the copper, so I can imagine that this is going to be quite the battle.

Thanks for the suggestion on the TTM - perhaps I'll try that with her. I'd really like to be gentle with her.

 

[CanadianReefer]

Anyone had any issues with blennies in copper? I have a lawnmower blenny and a bicolor blenny. Both seem to be fine right now (oh - and not being territorial at all, which was my first concern) but I have heard that they suffer given their tiny scales. Any feedback?

 

[Humblefish]

Anyone had any issues with blennies in copper? I have a lawnmower blenny and a bicolor blenny. Both seem to be fine right now (oh - and not being territorial at all, which was my first concern) but I have heard that they suffer given their tiny scales. Any feedback?

I've treated dozens with chelated copper and they seem to hold up pretty well. The biggest thing is that the fish continues to eat.

FYI; "COVERED in Ich" usually = velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[CanadianReefer]

Unfortunately, it might be velvet. The tang looks exactly how my orangeback looked when he woke up this morning (and there wasn't a drop on him last night).

At this point, he's in the copper, and is still eating. Am I best to just continue status quo, or should I do the following:

1) freshwater bath
2) bath in ruby reef rally
3) bath in ich-x
4) back in the copper

I don't have the chloroquine that they've mentioned, but I do have ruby reef rally and ich-x on hand and already have copper on the go.

The article mentions using kanaplex along with the chloroquine. Should I be doing this while my fish are in the copper? The Seachem website said that generally, the two are fine. I can bind it to their food - I have focus on hand as well.



I hope I don't lose the battle.

 

[Humblefish]

If you have Rally do this: 5 min FW dip + 90 min Rally bath + place the fish back in copper

If all you have is Ich-X do this: 5 min FW dip + 60 min Ich-X bath + place the fish back in copper

If the fish is covered with white dots, I would also dose Kanaplex in conjunction with copper for at least a few days until you are out of the woods with a secondary bacterial infection. Increase gas exchange to compensate for O2 depletion from combining the two.

 

[melypr1985]

If you have Rally do this: 5 min FW dip + 90 min Rally bath + place the fish back in copper

If all you have is Ich-X do this: 5 min FW dip + 60 min Ich-X bath + place the fish back in copper

If the fish is covered with white dots, I would also dose Kanaplex in conjunction with copper for at least a few days until you are out of the woods with a secondary bacterial infection. Increase gas exchange to compensate for O2 depletion from combining the two.

+1 Seeing you say that the fish are covered, makes me think velvet as well. TTM is out in that case.

 

[CanadianReefer]

So I came home after work and my wrasse has no spots left on him. I have no idea how that's possible????? I can't say he looks totally awesome - he's eating a bit but not with the same gusto as usual... but not a fleck on him. So I wonder... does Velvet do that? Should I still do the fresh water/rally bath?

I see some flecks on the other fish, but they are few and far between. My fox seems to be looking much better than pre-QT... maybe only a few flecks left.

I tested my copper levels - I'd say it's pretty much dead on .5 so I won't add the extra 38 drops. Really hard to read those test kits, but the Seachem came with a reference sample, and it looked pretty darn close to mine so I'm hoping it's within the right range to be effective. I ordered the Salifert kit, which should come in this week, so I'll use both and see what happens.

 

[melypr1985]

So I came home after work and my wrasse has no spots left on him. I have no idea how that's possible????? I can't say he looks totally awesome - he's eating a bit but not with the same gusto as usual... but not a fleck on him. So I wonder... does Velvet do that? Should I still do the fresh water/rally bath?

Yes it can. As part of the life cycle it can drop off the fish to reproduce. Then it breaks open to find another host and feed again. Still do the freshwater dip and rally bath.

 

[4FordFamily]

+1 Seeing you say that the fish are covered, makes me think velvet as well. TTM is out in that case.

X2

 

[CanadianReefer]

darn Okay - he's getting a bath. I'm really worried now - especially for the leopard wrasse, since I didn't want her in copper. If she's contracted velvet, the TTM won't work on her...

She seems asymptomatic, but I know that can mean nothing at all.

I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[CanadianReefer]

So.....
I don't see any additional overt signs of ich and/or velvet (in terms of spots/dots), though I'm keeping my eye on the foxface since his belly may have a dusty-looking patch. It was really hard to tell this morning because he was swimming around quite a bit.

Now, for the bad news... all 3 of my wrasses that are in the copper (my exquisite, flasher and orangeback) are simply not doing well. They are breathing heavily at the bottom, haven't been interested in food, and are generally looking really stressed. The orangeback was "swimming" around the bottom of the tank without even lifting itself off the bottom. He was basically scooting along.

I keep reading that wrasses do not fair well in copper. That's why I had opted to treat the leopard wrasse separately, since she's apparently even more sensitive than the others.

I'm wondering what I can do to improve the situation? Should I try to lower the concentrate of the Cupramine? At what level will it still be effective? I've read that it can still be therapeutic at .2 (I believe this came from the Seachem website directly). Is this correct? I'm fairly concerned that I'm going to lose my wrasses at this point. I'm only 5 days into the treatment, and they are already looking like this.

What if I were to pull out the copper with carbon and try paraguard instead? Is it any gentler or would I run into the same problem regardless?

The other fish seem to be tolerating it without much issue (at least thus far). The problem is that really, the wrasses and the foxface are the centerpiece of my reef tank - other than that, I have smaller background-type fish. I wouldn't have much to look at without the wrasses, and I picked out some of the most colourful ones for this reason. It's hard to get much of a fish selection in Canada, so replacing them would be difficult, and I will be devastated in general if I lose them since I'm fairly attached.

Any suggestions?

 

[Humblefish]

Can you get Coppersafe or Copper Power in Canada? IME; wrasses do better in chelated copper than ionic (Cupramine).

 

[CanadianReefer]

I've never seen it here. I will check around, but I've always been under the impression that something like coppersafe is a bit unstable??

 

[melypr1985]

I've never seen it here. I will check around, but I've always been under the impression that something like coppersafe is a bit unstable??

I've never experienced coppersafe being unstable.... though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Any copper product will be unstable if used in a tank with plastics, live rock or live sand - all of which will absorb copper and release it again into the water later.