In the past, I've bought many fish from the regular portion of the Liveaquaria webstore and a few from Diver's Den. I've always QT'd all fish going into my display and this system has never had any Crypto or Velvet. I recently purchased 2 gobies from Diver's Den and I really don't feel like going through the whole QT process. Does anyone have any experience/input on Diver's Den fish requiring QT? Are they still likely to carry Crypto, Velvet, flukes, etc.?
Diver's Den Fish without QT???
- Thread starter Tft12
- Start date
- Tagged users None
mike werner
2500 Club Member
yep only took one gold flake angel with velvet from la to sway me.didn't have room to qt him and rolled the dice.20 fish and $2000 later I learned my lesson.do as I say not as I did.
Truth is ....it seems that Qt is absolutely necessary....it is unfortunate that their site literature can make you feel very comfortable about not Qt'ing one of their fish but as stated above it can be the beginning of the end....that being said.....My one and only DD purchase (White Tail BT Tang) was introduced without Qt over a year ago and luckily, it seems I slipped through! Be assured though that I will Qt all future fish purchased from any retailer.....doesn't mean all will be copper (or the like) treated without cause, but they will all undergo a freshwater dip, rounds of Prazipro and an extended observation period.....
Last edited:
mike werner
2500 Club Member
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2018
- Messages
- 859
- Reaction score
- 2,353
I think it is important to distinguish between two important aspects of separating a new fish, Disease quarantine, and Acclimation to Captivity.
Isolating and observing or treating prophylactically to contain the spread of disease is what is primarily discussed. And I think is an absolute requirement of the unlucky reefer. Many lucky reefers seem to get by without it, but as one of the people who from time to time, has unlucky things happen, a perfectly human thing, QT to prevent disease is a must. I have learned my lesson the hard way, losing a whole tank to velvet early.
Unfortunately LA , Divers Den, and most retailers don't have the facilities to adequately guarantee against cross contamination, the responsibility of quarantining disease falls onto the consumer. Not to disparage the retailers out there that do do a good job of this, but research those who do claim to, and make sure you feel confident that it matches known and trusted procedures.
Specifically Divers Den Page says: "The quarantine period for each fish ranges from a minimum of two weeks..." Which is not long enough for my personal tastes and I would QT for disease from Divers Den. YRMV and I'm sure a Lucky Reefer will be by shortly to tell me I'm wrong.
What good retailers including Divers Den do well is the second part, Acclimating fish to Captivity. Training fish to eat foods, and the artificial environment. Even socializing them with other reef fish, see this article on the Narcosis Angel that was on Divers Den. Acclimating fish to the artificial reef environment is an often overlooked part of acquiring a new fish that retailers can excel in.
Isolating and observing or treating prophylactically to contain the spread of disease is what is primarily discussed. And I think is an absolute requirement of the unlucky reefer. Many lucky reefers seem to get by without it, but as one of the people who from time to time, has unlucky things happen, a perfectly human thing, QT to prevent disease is a must. I have learned my lesson the hard way, losing a whole tank to velvet early.
Unfortunately LA , Divers Den, and most retailers don't have the facilities to adequately guarantee against cross contamination, the responsibility of quarantining disease falls onto the consumer. Not to disparage the retailers out there that do do a good job of this, but research those who do claim to, and make sure you feel confident that it matches known and trusted procedures.
Specifically Divers Den Page says: "The quarantine period for each fish ranges from a minimum of two weeks..." Which is not long enough for my personal tastes and I would QT for disease from Divers Den. YRMV and I'm sure a Lucky Reefer will be by shortly to tell me I'm wrong.
What good retailers including Divers Den do well is the second part, Acclimating fish to Captivity. Training fish to eat foods, and the artificial environment. Even socializing them with other reef fish, see this article on the Narcosis Angel that was on Divers Den. Acclimating fish to the artificial reef environment is an often overlooked part of acquiring a new fish that retailers can excel in.
CMO
Valuable Member
While I 100% agree with everything that has been said about QT, I will admit that I have purchased all (21 total) of my fish from DD now without QT and have not had any major issues beyond maybe 2 or 3 that had minor stringy white poo. I feed Metroplex soaked food in the DT for the first two weeks after new arrivals to kill any potential lingering internal parasites like this but that's about it.
Last edited:
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
People get lucky. And while DD takes good care of their fish, it is not a true qt, so disease and parasites can make it through.
GoldeneyeRet
2500 Club Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2016
- Messages
- 3,079
- Reaction score
- 11,184
I Qt everything wet, every time, zero exceptions from any source.
DD fish are great. They are well conditioned. They are eating and at a good body weight. They are never disease ridden to the point they are weak or struggling. They are the healthiest fish available IMO.
That said, they are not thoroughly quarantined and they can, and sometimes do, harbor parasites.
I Qt everything. I treat prophylactically for everything I can. I assume each new addition "carries" everything. I constantly review my qt protocol. I also enjoy the qt process so I guess I don't see it as an added hassle.
DD fish are great. They are well conditioned. They are eating and at a good body weight. They are never disease ridden to the point they are weak or struggling. They are the healthiest fish available IMO.
That said, they are not thoroughly quarantined and they can, and sometimes do, harbor parasites.
I Qt everything. I treat prophylactically for everything I can. I assume each new addition "carries" everything. I constantly review my qt protocol. I also enjoy the qt process so I guess I don't see it as an added hassle.
ca1ore
10K Club member
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
CTARS Member
Article Contributor
R2R TV Featured
I think the exact process that DD uses is not entirely clear. Some years ago they 're-wrote' the description of what they do to seem more like quarantine and less like conditioning. Not sure if their procedures changed as well. Either way, there is not a better source for fish than DD ..... but you should absolutely quarantine yourself. Earlier post also made the point I've been arguing for years: although disease prevention is always thought of first, an under appreciated benefit of QT is to get a new fish eating in an uncompetitive environment.
U
User1
Guest
I'm definitely going to tell someone they are wrong with regards to SOP's for introducing new fish. Having said that while I see the value in the processes I personally do not QT at this time. Primary reason is the limitation of space. I only buy fish from two places one being LA/DD and the other a local petclub retail store who has a pretty incredible setup for keeping saltwater fish. Honestly one of the best in town in which I have had 100% success rate from. Same with LA/DD. That could be due to LA mostly shipping out of California with regards to what I have bought with a short shipment or transportation time.
I do, however, perform Methylene blue and fresh water dips/baths per Mr. Fenner's guidelines on his portal. That at least gives me a tiny bit of safety but still not up to the more proper QT solutions. This is something I'm considering has I am looking to keep Regal Angels and I know they can be a bit tricky especially with getting them to eat. So maybe I will treat it similar to buying a new GSD puppy. I look at the breeder, see her schedule, then families schedule, so I can properly introduce, and train, the dog. Fish will have to be similar to make sure I'm not traveling, I can setup the QT tank, treat if necessary, teach it to eat, judge health, and then tear it all down and store until another day.
I do, however, perform Methylene blue and fresh water dips/baths per Mr. Fenner's guidelines on his portal. That at least gives me a tiny bit of safety but still not up to the more proper QT solutions. This is something I'm considering has I am looking to keep Regal Angels and I know they can be a bit tricky especially with getting them to eat. So maybe I will treat it similar to buying a new GSD puppy. I look at the breeder, see her schedule, then families schedule, so I can properly introduce, and train, the dog. Fish will have to be similar to make sure I'm not traveling, I can setup the QT tank, treat if necessary, teach it to eat, judge health, and then tear it all down and store until another day.
Thank you very much every one. I have been sufficiently scared now to continue my standard QT protocol. I was drifting into laziness but you guys scared me back to the safer path before any fish skipped QT. Thanks.
ca1ore
10K Club member
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
CTARS Member
Article Contributor
R2R TV Featured
Just an addendum .... I do vary the duration of QT depending upon when I got the fish from. I will go 4-6 weeks with som online places, closer to 4 with LFS and as short as 2 with DD. This assumes of course that no disease pops up.
I asked DD for the specifics of their QT treatments last week. The didn't really address my questions very well or completely, but here is the email I received, not sure it helps all that much, except their QT seems minimal and fish are kept at low, non therapeutic copper.
Dear Joe,
Thank you for contacting LiveAquaria. We sincerely apologize for the delay in responding your inquiry on the treatments that are done in our Aquaculture Facility. We were informed that the fish are kept in quarantine for a minimum of two weeks before that are pictured and offered on our Diver's Den website for sale. For treatment they soak the food in a garlic/med supplement. The copper levels in their aquariums are kept at .05 PPM.
Thank you for choosing Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria for your live aquatic needs.....
Dear Joe,
Thank you for contacting LiveAquaria. We sincerely apologize for the delay in responding your inquiry on the treatments that are done in our Aquaculture Facility. We were informed that the fish are kept in quarantine for a minimum of two weeks before that are pictured and offered on our Diver's Den website for sale. For treatment they soak the food in a garlic/med supplement. The copper levels in their aquariums are kept at .05 PPM.
Thank you for choosing Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria for your live aquatic needs.....
tiggs
Active Member
IMO, QT is absolutely mandatory these days, no matter where your new additions come from. For whatever reason, there seems to be a lot more disease across the board than there was in the past. Even though Diver's Den typically would be higher quality, I still wouldn't trust it and take that chance.
The only time I don't QT is when I'm introducing the first fish into a system. If there are no other fish there to infect, my DT is my de facto observation QT. If he's fine after 4-6 weeks (in most cases - I'll do a full 3 months for species with a thicker slime coat that wouldn't show symptoms as quickly), then I'm good to go and then do a full QT on any new additions. If he does show symptoms, he's pulled and placed into a HT for treatment, then my DT goes fallow for 3 months. Disclaimer - that last bit isn't what most would consider current best practices and is a little outside the box. IMO, it accomplishes the same thing, since the end goal of keeping disease out of my DT is still there, whether it be by "getting lucky" or having to remain fallow for another 3 months to allow the disease to run its course.
The only time I don't QT is when I'm introducing the first fish into a system. If there are no other fish there to infect, my DT is my de facto observation QT. If he's fine after 4-6 weeks (in most cases - I'll do a full 3 months for species with a thicker slime coat that wouldn't show symptoms as quickly), then I'm good to go and then do a full QT on any new additions. If he does show symptoms, he's pulled and placed into a HT for treatment, then my DT goes fallow for 3 months. Disclaimer - that last bit isn't what most would consider current best practices and is a little outside the box. IMO, it accomplishes the same thing, since the end goal of keeping disease out of my DT is still there, whether it be by "getting lucky" or having to remain fallow for another 3 months to allow the disease to run its course.
A DD fish brought me a strain of velvet that ended up wiping out 2 tanks. This stain must have been suppressed by a sub therapeutic regime of meds rather than an actually effective cure. The velvet didn't show up for more than 6 weeks, I did 4 weeks of qt. I transferred it to a 2nd tank and immediately caught it, I treated with cupramine at .5 for 3 weeks. The strain rebounded and killed everyone. DON'T trust anyone, your likelihood of disease is more yes than not. This is rather recent event, within the last 6 months. DD is just NOT what they used to be.
mckinney0171
Well-Known Member
I am probably in a minority. But I have never quarantined anything. My wife barely allows me to have one tank and a second one that is used only to quarantine fish is absolutely out of the question. I find that fish are stressed enough from shipping and packaging. Putting them into a sterile system usually lacking the same level of filtration as the main tank seems even more stressful. I have added divers den fish straight to my tank for years and have never had any outbreaks. That said i always feed my fish heavily with selcon mixed in to keep their immune systems as strong as possible. Good luck!
