DIY help/question pt 1 SUMP/FUGE

[fyrfytr]

So now that I have a tank and stand (non-traditional stand) I am starting the hard work. Space for a sump/fuge is at a premium. Has anyone ever created a TALL vs WIDE sump/fuge? Something that would maybe be multi leveled to make up for not being able to baffle between sections.

If this is something that is dumber then a box of rocks please speak up, the newbie in me is curious as to what I am doing and if I am dreaming here, or is this really a fiesable option that has merrit and might even work? LOL

 

[mcarroll]

I would take a different approach to the question if I were you. Don't worry so much at this stage how you would fit a typical sump (which are mostly over-designed IME) and it's specific features into your space. Instead of trying to be conventional in an unconventional situation, think hard about specifically what features and capabilities you need (vs "want") from your sump and the solutions will probably jump out at you.

For example, if you want space for a skimmer and that's the main thing, check out Tunze's "cabinet kits" for one idea of how different it can be. Their Skimmer kit (whether DIY or Tunze-branded) might be just what you have in mind, but don't know it. No baffles required!

For that matter, have you fully considered going sump-less? It's a completely worthwhile option, especially if physical circumstances kinda point away from a sump to begin with. Tunze's (not to be a brand-hound....they're good, but these are just ideas!) Reef Pack 505 system (or the smaller 250) is a great sump replacement if you ask me. Make almost any tank and All In One. Solid skimmer, good side-filter for floss, carbon or just flow, and top-flight ATO - all neatly integrated into an unobtrusive 4x8 footprint. They have a lot of gear oriented to sump-less design. Of course depends on your specific goals...as I started with.

-Matt

 

[Flipside]

Hey fyrfytr, check my reply to your other thread. I posted some pics up of what I did with an old, awkward setup I used-to own (and dearly miss, might I add).

You can do this, man! No problemo!

 

[fyrfytr]

Thanks for the ideas!
The goal for the setup was to allow for a more relaxed time when it came to reef keeping since this is my first tank. From all I have been reading the point of the sump was to have more water flow and volume therefore making things easier to keep in range as well as for ease of topoffs...and the fuge to have more bio filtration without it cluttering up your tank and be able to run macro alge without the alge feeders eating it. Added bonus was the ability to have pods in there for food on a constant basis and not having to add them to the main tank regularly.

You were not a brand hound...you recomend something that works and is good quality for you.....that is what these forms are for, to help people with what works and what doesnt. There is enough expence in this hobby, money wasted on non-functioning or less then functioning equipment just takes away from the fishy friends we can add to our tanks. The one thing I like about the sump/fuge idea is the clean tank look. HOB skimmer, filter, thermometer, UV filter...all of that takes away from the look of the tank, and we all have these tanks for the look.

I have condidered sumpless, and I am sure I can make a fish only tank work just fine without a sump, however the long term goal is to learn the saltwater with fish only then once I am confiant and comfortable and my tank is leveled out for an extended period dive into corals and everything else that makes the tank a sterotypical marine tank. When I put things together I want to do it right the first time, not have to go back 6 months to a year later and modify or change it. Hence why I am looking and working so hard with LED research, sure I could put any old canopy on the tank with fish only...but when I start corals I am going to have to upgrade so why not just TRY and do it all at once.

I appreciate all the input and encouragement. I know I will get through it, found a lot of help here so I know it is possible with the support of the members on this forum

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for the ideas!
The goal for the setup was to allow for a more relaxed time when it came to reef keeping since this is my first tank. From all I have been reading the point of the sump was to have more water flow and volume therefore making things easier to keep in range as well as for ease of topoffs...and the fuge to have more bio filtration without it cluttering up your tank and be able to run macro alge without the alge feeders eating it. Added bonus was the ability to have pods in there for food on a constant basis and not having to add them to the main tank regularly.

You were not a brand hound...you recomend something that works and is good quality for you.....that is what these forms are for, to help people with what works and what doesnt. There is enough expence in this hobby, money wasted on non-functioning or less then functioning equipment just takes away from the fishy friends we can add to our tanks. The one thing I like about the sump/fuge idea is the clean tank look. HOB skimmer, filter, thermometer, UV filter...all of that takes away from the look of the tank, and we all have these tanks for the look.

I have condidered sumpless, and I am sure I can make a fish only tank work just fine without a sump, however the long term goal is to learn the saltwater with fish only then once I am confiant and comfortable and my tank is leveled out for an extended period dive into corals and everything else that makes the tank a sterotypical marine tank. When I put things together I want to do it right the first time, not have to go back 6 months to a year later and modify or change it. Hence why I am looking and working so hard with LED research, sure I could put any old canopy on the tank with fish only...but when I start corals I am going to have to upgrade so why not just TRY and do it all at once.

I appreciate all the input and encouragement. I know I will get through it, found a lot of help here so I know it is possible with the support of the members on this forum

Well you've got some core ideas swirling around in there which deserve due consideration!

Here's the important stuff (to you) that I read out of the above, translated to list form (tell me if I'm wrong on any or need to add some):

• Easy is important. I have to agree here! In keeping with the "go slow" or "nothing good happens fast..." reefing maxim, starting out with "easy" does give your tank "room for error" and gives you time to learn from all the experience you'll be accumulating. Understocking the tank is probably the single thing you can do to make the tank the easiest to maintain and most relaxing to own while you're learning.
• Sump seems necessary. Can't totally agree here and you might even be setting up someone else's "ideal of a tank" since you have lots of not-too-specific reasons for wanting one. All of the reasons stated are trappings of an overstocked tank. If the typical "overstocked look" is what you are aiming for, then this could make a sump more desirable. It also adds considerable complexity and expense to what can be as simple as a single glass box full of water...so if you don't need it, I wouldn't install it.
• Worried about look of equipment in tank. I can understand the concern, but the reality is that you will always have equipment in the tank....what you consider acceptable or not is largely up to your taste and skill at hiding equipment in the tank. Somewhat your selection of equipment will weigh on you success here. Tunze is the only vendor I know that seems to cater strongly to all-in-one tanks and hiding equipment in meaningful ways. Check out their live rock prosthesis for their Stream and Nanostream pumps, for example. The previously mentioned Tunze Reefpack 505 is much less obtrusive than a "reef ready" drain box and will handle 100% of the same duties in most tanks....reasonably stocked up to about 150 gallons.
• Considered sumpless but worried you will be missing "something". Which ever way you decide to build, going slow and allowing your evolving (improving!) understanding and skill level to influence your decisions will prevent you missing a mystery "something". You are making the effort now for smart decisions....along with going slow, that's what you should focus on. Trying to "do it all at once" only subverts the expected benefits of your ongoing learning process and places your tank more firmly "in the past".

The biggest problem in front of you is that this is all in theory...nothing concrete. This makes you see all the options, all the possible problems and opens up the possibility of missing "something". The reality should naturally be more focused, with the livestock narrowing or even dictating most of your choices for you. For example, if your tank is 75 gallons and your first fish is a puffer, you have a whole lot less decisions to make and future options to choose from regarding future fish! (Zero, or close.) Coral too! (Zero, or close.) The equation is now very simple from here forward.

That's a simplistic example, but the same will be true for your case. Give yourself the time to decide and be confident about what livestock you're putting into the tank. As soon as you can be confident about the first choice, it's usually easy to spec. the system (sump? no sump?) and pick their cohabitants from there. For example, you say you're sure you want coral, but are starting out with fish? Why? It's conventional wisdom to take that route, but my experience is that SPS are actually a lot easier to start with. A significant advantage of SPS vs fish to beginners is that due to ease of fragging, you can specify that they will be captive bred 100% of the time. If things go south on your for any reason, impact to the environment is zilch. If you know you want an SPS tank, for example, have an SPS tank.....and spec the system and rest of the cohabitants accordingly.

[/soapbox]

So how about a picture of the tank, stand and space so we can get an idea of what you're trying to work with?

-Matt

 

[fyrfytr]

@mcarrol Your soapbox is exactly why I like this site...people believe in helping those who ask for help and are working to help themselves and the future of the hobby, not just come asking for people to do it all for them. Nothing happend fast is exactly why I am here. I have been a member here since July...and on other reef forums as well....and it wasnt till last week that I had a fish tank even in my house. All of that time was spent reading what people had posted, what questions they were asking...and then posting some of my own. Getting the confidance to even attempt this build, before I spend the first penny on the tank.

You are correct, simple is what is important. I have grown up with freshwater tanks, so taking care of those is easy and second nature to me. My wife is slowly picking up on simple tank maintenance. When this whole first endevor started she prefased that I needed to learn about what I was doing and then needed to show her the simple and general stuff, leaving the technical to me. My vision for her was feeding, turning on and off the lights (little did I know I can maybe control them automatically) and the simple basic stuff...where on my end I was watching the test strips, making the water, and the like. Simple works for that, and simple also works because if I can keep more of it simple I can get my 3yr old involved more with the daily "care" and upkeep of the tank. I came into this with the sterotypical outlook that salt tanks were very hard to mantain, and I have learned that they are not as difficult as it seems, but I have spent the majority of my time with fish. At 3yrs old there is no way that he can appreciate the slow groth of a coral frag, so that never entered my mind to start even looking at now. Ultimately I would like to have a nice mixed reef with fish, corals, and all that good stuff that just makes guests step back and say "wow", which is why I seem to feel that a sump/fuge is necessary. If I am going to take the time to set the tank up I may as well set it up right and ahead. of schedule. If I am gong to need to drill for a sump/fuge when I get into corals I may as well drill it now and get the sump/fuge set up so when the time is ready that is one less thing to have to do....one again going back to the while simple thing. I don't know the eventual outlook of the tank, I dont want to plan that far ahead and be stuck in that if I decide to change. I want to be able to go into a pet store and say "OOO...I want that one" and take it home, not have to do the quick mental math of if the tank can handle the bio load of another fish or invert or coral. Do i see myself being an inpulse fish buyer....no.....but if there is this fish that the wife wants (and she has been awful giving to allow this tank in the first place) then I want to be able to put it in there so long as it is compatable with who is already thre.

As for the quipment look, I know that there will have to be some thing there, but there are options to minimise that. There are the surface power heads that I can take and fabricate a way to divert the waterflow some...or I can just do the standard and use the maget/suction cup mound on the side of the tank. My fear is that a heater, skimmer, power filter (maybe, can-o-worms here I know), UV filter hanging will take away from the look of the tank. Is it really a possinility, not really...but I am taking the time to do this so I want to do it right. I have no problems waiting a week or two to get it set up so I get it set up right, I dont want to have to partially drain the tank, or completly drain it and put the fish into storage tubs with water and a power head, because I changed my direction and now I need to drill the tank or something along those lines.