DIY Kalk Controller

[n2585722]

What pump are you using to dose. And when you say dynamic dosing, I assume that means constantly changing based on variables. Can these pumps run continuously and be dynamic?

Does hydros only allow certain pumps to operate within their ecosystem?

Can you elaborate more on the stirrer and how that works?

Like I said I don't use that output myself but at this point any dosing pump you can set to run at a fixed rate when powered on will work. Hydros calls those simple dosing pumps. They have announced smart dosing pumps that come on the X10. Those can have a flow rate of less than 1ml a minute up to 100ml a minute which will be controlled by the X10. They are also bidirectional. They are stepper motor type pumps made by Kamoer. Hydros also has a simple dosing pump that runs at around 43ml a minute fixed.I have been using Intllab dosing pumps on the Hydros drive ports which are 12v ports. Here is a log from my All For Reef dosing and one for my KH dosing. The last two screenshots are for the All For Reef dosing. The dosing values entered are for total dosing for total schedule and not individual dosing times. I use alkalinity reading for determining dose. My KH Carer test 4 times a day and the dosing is scheduled to run 30 minutes after the end of the test so it will use the last reading to adjust the dose. For All For Reef I set a wide range from 7.5 to 9.5 DKH. You can also use pH for a dosing input instead but I use alkalinity. Also I mix my All For Reed half strength so it dits better with the dosing pumps. They will run longer each dose. There is also a dose you can set that the schedule will dos if the input is invalid or stale. So in this case if the Hydros does not get readings from the Kamoer cloud for the input after a set amount of time the input will be considered stale and it will dose at the rate set for that happening. You set the stale timeframe in the input settings. So they are basically scheduled dosings and not constant. You may be able to come close to that with the smart dosing pumps running at a low flow rate and dosing a lot more often. The dosing pump has to run at least 2.5 seconds per dose but with a low flow rate dosing pump that should not be too much of an issue for most.

 

[n2585722]

What pump are you using to dose. And when you say dynamic dosing, I assume that means constantly changing based on variables. Can these pumps run continuously and be dynamic?

Does hydros only allow certain pumps to operate within their ecosystem?

Can you elaborate more on the stirrer and how that works?

The stirrer is usually a stirrer magnet coupled with a motor underneath the Kalk reactor. My understanding it is run occasionally to stir the kalk. I have not used one personally but there has been some discussions on setting one up using the Hydros output for it on their facebook group. So there are a some people using it. You can use any output the stirrer you have is compatible with. The soon to be released iV from Hydros will have a stirrer that connect to their 12v drive port but you can use a AC outlet on a XP8 or wifi strip to power one also. I personally would either use the 12v drive port or an XP8 outlet since those do not depend on a wifi signal. I use their wifi power strips but not on anything that on and off times are critical such as ATO, AWC, dosing and solenoids for RODI.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@n2585722 thanks for your detailed response and helping me understand hydros a bit better. It seems that they are extracting some things from ghl as well as apex and putting their own unique spin on it.

They're definitely an up and comer with potential. I'm keeping my eye on them. I had a hydros x4 but I didn't keep it long. I got rid of it when I concluded it is still in its infancy. I even had conversation with Carlos about trying to add a few things to get it for perform some basic functions. But it was added to the list with no promise of implementation.

Not that I expected them to jump through hoops, it's just something you'd expect to have from the start.

Granted if the prices are still competitive, I'll have to revisit them in a couple years.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Once you have some data on the pH probes at that high of pH please share .

Ok, so I have some more information on the probes. They actually arrived today.

They use a tyvek frit opposed to a ceramic frit. It was explained that the kalkwasser clogs those.

The probes are from atlas scientific and it will replace their #ENV-30-pH probe, but will be a while before they're stocked because they have to run through the old probes (apparently it's going to be the same part number)

It's a bit early to even know these are worthy replacements for any other hobby grade probe, but it calibrated quickly and doesn't seem to move from 12.44 after being in the solution for 7+ hours.

If you're eager to get one now, I remember you saying that you've reached out to them before. You may want to ask to get one. I spoke with Jordan via email. But I'm sure anyone would be fine to talk to.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

A little update, 13 days later and the pH probe with the tyvek frit is still holding surprisingly steady.

I refilled the reactor with 1 lb of kalk 7 days ago, based on kalk pH (12.35) and so far, every time I walk in to check on it, it's holding steady.

After 7 days it went from 12.46 to 12.42.

 

[cattledog]

Jimmy--

I didn't realize this thread/project was still going. Please contact me.

 

[PeterErc]

Interesting thread, I had never bothered with ph. I have used kalkwasser in top off for years with fresh air intake for skimmer and figured it is what it is.
I read you build thread which lead me to purchase a ph controller and set up the litermeter. The system is very basic. I will be changing a lot of diapers, wiping the butt and smearing on the butt paste.
Thanks for taking the time to post

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Taking this a step further, because I was hitting my evaporation point and still needing to add kalk to maintain pH, I started to implement a concentrated salt mix that would require some precise pumps to dose particular amounts of kalk, concentrated salt and removal of old salt water to maintain an orchestrated balance of the tanks salinity.

I started off doing this manually with 2 versas but because versas are not currently programmable based on inputs, I decided that after some time developing the proof of concept that I was ready to stop manually doing the math and have software do the heavy lifting.

And because I have a desire to engineer everything myself, I took to solidworks to design the specifics from the mechanical portion all the way to the case design.

This guy does a lot, it can be used as a continuous waterchanger, independently dose continuously from 1ml/min to 300ml/min, it can dose based on time of day and amount. Basically the typical stuff you'd expect from a peri-pump. Not to mention that the user has full control of calibration. You can set the amount to calibrate to and the duration of calibration (more on that later because I think this is the best approach for calibrating).

However, for my needs, it communicates with the kalk controller and receives current kalk pump rates, and amount dosed. Once the daily evaporation is hit, this pump kicks in and starts adding the correct amount of concentrated salt to be mixed with the kalk being dispensed so that the sum of both equal targeted salinity (I have mine set to 35ppt but any salinity can be targeted). Finally, the old saltwater pump removes the sum of both kalk and concentrated salt being dispensed.

It sounds complicated, it kind of is, but my buddy Richard made sure all that was handled with the software and all the user has to do is input the target salinity and the salinity of the concentrated salt mix, everything else is handled with the software. Super simple.

In true fashion I whipped up a circuit board design and ordered all the parts off of digikey.

Of course none of this wouldn't have been possible without my good buddy Richard, arduino coding genius. He made it possible to tap into the TMC5160 motor drivers that provide all the heavy lifting for the stepper motors. Not to mention the interface between the touch screen and ardiuno, but the art work for the touchscreen was all me though hehe.

Here's a down and dirty overview of the 2AWC, I tried hard not to get into the weeds and kept it simple. haha.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

In my lack of a life, and just pure boredom….I came across a few of your threads and have been reading them cover to cover. Amazeballs! Pretty slick way to handle Kalk in general, especially for overcoming the evap limit. I can see this becoming mainstream as it’s so simple (not your idea/design/concept, but just the pure automation and only topping up Kalk). My brain even goes a step further with an auger/hopper that automatically adds Kalk powder to the reactor from a bulk bin at a calculated and controlled amount and frequency. Just amazing, great innovation here!

 

[theatrus]

Taking this a step further, because I was hitting my evaporation point and still needing to add kalk to maintain pH, I started to implement a concentrated salt mix that would require some precise pumps to dose particular amounts of kalk, concentrated salt and removal of old salt water to maintain an orchestrated balance of the tanks salinity.

I started off doing this manually with 2 versas but because versas are not currently programmable based on inputs, I decided that after some time developing the proof of concept that I was ready to stop manually doing the math and have software do the heavy lifting.

And because I have a desire to engineer everything myself, I took to solidworks to design the specifics from the mechanical portion all the way to the case design.

This guy does a lot, it can be used as a continuous waterchanger, independently dose continuously from 1ml/min to 300ml/min, it can dose based on time of day and amount. Basically the typical stuff you'd expect from a peri-pump. Not to mention that the user has full control of calibration. You can set the amount to calibrate to and the duration of calibration (more on that later because I think this is the best approach for calibrating).

However, for my needs, it communicates with the kalk controller and receives current kalk pump rates, and amount dosed. Once the daily evaporation is hit, this pump kicks in and starts adding the correct amount of concentrated salt to be mixed with the kalk being dispensed so that the sum of both equal targeted salinity (I have mine set to 35ppt but any salinity can be targeted). Finally, the old saltwater pump removes the sum of both kalk and concentrated salt being dispensed.

It sounds complicated, it kind of is, but my buddy Richard made sure all that was handled with the software and all the user has to do is input the target salinity and the salinity of the concentrated salt mix, everything else is handled with the software. Super simple.

In true fashion I whipped up a circuit board design and ordered all the parts off of digikey.

Of course none of this wouldn't have been possible without my good buddy Richard, arduino coding genius. He made it possible to tap into the TMC5160 motor drivers that provide all the heavy lifting for the stepper motors. Not to mention the interface between the touch screen and ardiuno, but the art work for the touchscreen was all me though hehe.

Here's a down and dirty overview of the 2AWC, I tried hard not to get into the weeds and kept it simple. haha.

Very nice. Did you print the rollers and cage for the doser or go with some off the shelf sleeves?

 

[Troylee]

I got a head ache reading this… see ya tomorrow

 

[Reefering1]

Whoa

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Very nice. Did you print the rollers and cage for the doser or go with some off the shelf sleeves?

No, I printed them, the color scheme is based on one that I'm currently making.

I had issues with the tube walking off the roller, which prompted a whole host of changes. There was a lot of trial and error with getting the rollers, rotor and outer datum to play nicely with the tube, and I think I got it dialed in.

I wanted to avoid any post machining of the plastic parts which meant precise design and printing everything on one printer to ensure an accurate fit across all parts. It's amazing how un precise printers are unless you set the steps per mm but that isn't accurate as you'd think.

 

[areefer01]

No, I printed them, the color scheme is based on one that I'm currently making.

I had issues with the tube walking off the roller, which prompted a whole host of changes. There was a lot of trial and error with getting the rollers, rotor and outer datum to play nicely with the tube, and I think I got it dialed in.

I wanted to avoid any post machining of the plastic parts which meant precise design and printing everything on one printer to ensure an accurate fit across all parts. It's amazing how un precise printers are unless you set the steps per mm but that isn't accurate as you'd think.

Great job.

 

[theatrus]

No, I printed them, the color scheme is based on one that I'm currently making.

I had issues with the tube walking off the roller, which prompted a whole host of changes. There was a lot of trial and error with getting the rollers, rotor and outer datum to play nicely with the tube, and I think I got it dialed in.

I wanted to avoid any post machining of the plastic parts which meant precise design and printing everything on one printer to ensure an accurate fit across all parts. It's amazing how un precise printers are unless you set the steps per mm but that isn't accurate as you'd think.

Looks great. Thats one huge bearing :-D

Printing on the orientation you chose here makes sense for the rollers and everything. Also love the hollow cavities, all you need is some draft angle and you can mold those

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Also love the hollow cavities, all you need is some draft angle and you can mold those

For sure, I just recently started looking at cnc machines. I have a small one but it can't do what I want. I really want to get into injection molding. I have the space for it, I just need to justify allocation the funds. Hehe

That would be something I think I would enjoy playing with.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Printing on the orientation you chose here makes sense for the rollers and everything

If you remember starting your dc buddy thread, I offered to design the case. But was extremely busy and couldn't devote the time necessary. However, you did a fantastic job without my help.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

With my concentrated brine doser (I call it 2AWC) that has been running on my system for probably close to a year, I started having problems with the plastic parts, particularly rhe ones that rotate and l come into contact with metal. From the get go, I was concerned with how the 3D printed PETG cycloidal cam and eccentric shaft were going to hold up over time. Because of that, I tried making those on the 3D printer with delrin, but acetal has so many characteristics that make it almost dumb to even sell that plastic on a spool for 3D printing.

you can see the groove the bearing dug into the PETG part.

That groove created a lot of slop that resulted in a noisy pump, not to mention loss of accuracy.

If this is to be a reliable pump then those parts need to be durable.

I decided to get some acetal stock, to machine the parts with a 3 axis cnc, but while waiting for supplies to arrive, i needed to get 2AWC back in service. The beauty of 3D printers is that I was able to reprint those parts and get the pump back in service.

While waiting for the acetal to arrive, I also had to redesign the cycloidal cam to play well with the cnc.

Subtractive manufacturing is a lot more messy that additive, but just as cool to watch.

And the final part:

I haven't had time to make the swap yet, but these parts should last forever.

I need to turn my attention to the eccentric. That one shows zero sign of wear but I would still feel more comfortable if that was a more durable plastic or even aluminum piece.

I think I will do that on my lathe. The only thing holding me up is that I need to make a D shaped broach or source one to make the D shaped bore that slided over the motor shaft... Fun is never in short supply at my house.