DIY tank stand issues

[kolleradam]

Hey all, so I'm about halfway through my 2x4 tank stand project (40'L x 20'W x 36"H) and I'm noticing that the wood is bowing on the length-wise pieces, causing an unlevel surface and gaps in the corner joints (see attached pics). My main question is: Is this even salvageable? And if so, how? I just dont want to come home one day to a collapsed stand and water everywhere.

Before you start roasting my carpentry skills, this IS my first diy tank stand (or anything with wood for that matter)

 

[Gtinnel]

I would think that you could clamp it tight and put more screws in the joints to keep it in place (you would need to back the screws that are not holding the wood together back out first).

There is a bigger issue IMO, you are missing the vertical supports that are designed to hold the weight. Right now your top frame is only being held from falling by some screws. There is generally vertical boards that go from the top frame to the bottom frame.

The purple boards in rocketengineers design

 

[DCR]

Where the wood is warped on the vertical legs should not affect the structure - only the appearance. The main thing is that the top is flat so that the tank is completely supported around the rim. I agree with above post that it would be better if the top rim was fully supported beneath it like in the diagram, but for a small tank like this you can probably get by with the screws into the legs carrying the weight - especially with that middle support. For a 40" long tank you normally would not need the middle support.

 

[mdb_talon]

@Gtinnel is spot on regarding the weight all being on the screws. A 2x4 can hold a ton of weight but screws have very little sheer strength and that's what your stand relies on. I would never trust screws to hold the weight even on a small tank. Even coated rust proof nails are going to rust on a reef tank eventually...making them even weaker. Even one 2x4 in each corner will be a tremendous help.

 

[kolleradam]

I would think that you could clamp it tight and put more screws in the joints to keep it in place (you would need to back the screws that are not holding the wood together back out first).

There is a bigger issue IMO, you are missing the vertical supports that are designed to hold the weight. Right now your top frame is only being held from falling by some screws. There is generally vertical boards that go from the top frame to the bottom frame.

The purple boards in rocketengineers design

I would think that you could clamp it tight and put more screws in the joints to keep it in place (you would need to back the screws that are not holding the wood together back out first).

There is a bigger issue IMO, you are missing the vertical supports that are designed to hold the weight. Right now your top frame is only being held from falling by some screws. There is generally vertical boards that go from the top frame to the bottom frame.

The purple boards in rocketengineers design

Ahh yea. I havent done the supporting vertical load bearing posts yet. Like I said, this is only halfway done. I just now started to notice the warping.

 

[kolleradam]

Where the wood is warped on the vertical legs should not affect the structure - only the appearance. The main thing is that the top is flat so that the tank is completely supported around the rim. I agree with above post that it would be better if the top rim was fully supported beneath it like in the diagram, but for a small tank like this you can probably get by with the screws into the legs carrying the weight - especially with that middle support. For a 40" long tank you normally would not need the middle support.

Yea i plan on laying a piece of plywood on top and possibly using shims to compensate for any gaps that may occur. As far as the middle vertical beam goes, I just figured I needed to go overkill on the support

 

[kolleradam]

@Gtinnel is spot on regarding the weight all being on the screws. A 2x4 can hold a ton of weight but screws have very little sheer strength and that's what your stand relies on. I would never trust screws to hold the weight even on a small tank. Even coated rust proof nails are going to rust on a reef tank eventually...making them even weaker. Even one 2x4 in each corner will be a tremendous help.

Yup! That was my next plan: two 2x4s in each corner. Im just concerned about the bowing/warping of the wood and if its any kind of hazard by means of buckling or collapse.

 

[Gtinnel]

Yup! That was my next plan: two 2x4s in each corner. Im just concerned about the bowing/warping of the wood and if its any kind of hazard by means of buckling or collapse.

Once you put the other vertical supports in then the current verticals do almost nothing. I would still pull the joints together first though.
Also if you plan on having a sump, I would remove the front center support. It will be in the way of accessing the sump.

 

[PlumberDude]

When you go pick out your lumber to build anything that needs to be square, grab the 2 x 4 or whatever your buying off the rack and hold one end up to your face and look down the narrow edge of board to the other end. You will notice that a lot of them are bowed. Sometimes you have to keep trying until you find straight pieces. I also lay them on the concrete narrow side down to make sure they aren’t bowed the other way. Trust me it’s worth the extra few minutes. Add the extra boards to your stand and back the screws out and clamp the wood to where you want it first. You can persuade it if it’s not too warped or twisted. A twisted or bowed 2x4 is better off being removed and replaced with a good one. It will make your project a lot easier especially when you go to skin it Or try and level a tank out on it. Sure you can shim it but with straight lumber you won’t need to. You have the basic idea and doing great! Also a square is your best friend, you can make sure all your corners are square.

 

[kolleradam]

When you go pick out your lumber to build anything that needs to be square, grab the 2 x 4 or whatever your buying off the rack and hold one end up to your face and look down the narrow edge of board to the other end. You will notice that a lot of them are bowed. Sometimes you have to keep trying until you find straight pieces. I also lay them on the concrete narrow side down to make sure they aren’t bowed the other way. Trust me it’s worth the extra few minutes. Add the extra boards to your stand and back the screws out and clamp the wood to where you want it first. You can persuade it if it’s not too warped or twisted. A twisted or bowed 2x4 is better off being removed and replaced with a good one. It will make your project a lot easier especially when you go to skin it Or try and level a tank out on it. Sure you can shim it but with straight lumber you won’t need to. You have the basic idea and doing great! Also a square is your best friend, you can make sure all your corners are square.

Thanks for the advice! Are you suggesting that I go get new straight lumber and add it to the stand for extra support, or just strip off the bad and replace with the good?

 

[jabberwock]

When you go pick out your lumber to build anything that needs to be square, grab the 2 x 4 or whatever your buying off the rack and hold one end up to your face and look down the narrow edge of board to the other end. You will notice that a lot of them are bowed. Sometimes you have to keep trying until you find straight pieces. I also lay them on the concrete narrow side down to make sure they aren’t bowed the other way. Trust me it’s worth the extra few minutes. Add the extra boards to your stand and back the screws out and clamp the wood to where you want it first. You can persuade it if it’s not too warped or twisted. A twisted or bowed 2x4 is better off being removed and replaced with a good one. It will make your project a lot easier especially when you go to skin it Or try and level a tank out on it. Sure you can shim it but with straight lumber you won’t need to. You have the basic idea and doing great! Also a square is your best friend, you can make sure all your corners are square.

Careful lumber selection is key to any project.

 

[PlumberDude]

Thanks for the advice! Are you suggesting that I go get new straight lumber and add it to the stand for extra support, or just strip off the bad and replace with the good?

Strip off the bad pieces and use good straight lumber. You will be so much happier with the end result and may actually enjoy working with wood when your project turns out perfect and want to build something else. It’s discouraging when you try and build something and it just won’t go together correctly. Like I was saying you can do a lot with a 10$ speed square. You can put it in each corner and if it touches both sides evenly butted into a corner you are square.

 

[92Miata]

Strip off the bad pieces and use good straight lumber. You will be so much happier with the end result and may actually enjoy working with wood when your project turns out perfect and want to build something else. It’s discouraging when you try and build something and it just won’t go together correctly. Like I was saying you can do a lot with a 10$ speed square. You can put it in each corner and if it touches both sides evenly butted into a corner you are square.

If he's going to start chucking lumber, he should be moving away from the RocketEngineer design, not buying more 2x4s.

The RocketEngineer design assumes several premises:
1. The builder has no tools but a miter saw and a drill.
2. The builder has limited woodworking skills.
3. Good dimensional lumber is available for cheap.
4. The stand will not be sheathed in plywood.


If all those aren't true - it's an inefficient design that wastes a ton of wood and money, and has poor interior space.

Finding good dimensional lumber right now is really difficult, and it's not cheap. And if you're planning on sheathing the thing in plywood anyways, you're better off just building a plywood stand. They're drastically stronger, have more space inside, and right now, they're cheaper.


@kolleradam


Don't go out and buy more 2x4s to replace pieces. If you want to fix and use this stand, spend your money on some good clamps, a bottle of tightbond 2 or 3, and a square. Start at one upright, back out the screws, get everything lined up right, squirt some glue in, and then clamp it down HARD. Then re-screw and leave it for a couple hours with the clamp on.

You don't need the vertical center braces - it's just going to make the stand a pain to get into. Use those 2x4s to buddy up those uprights (put them in front of/outside the uprights). You may need one or 2 more 2x4s to get all the uprights reinforced.

 

[PlumberDude]

My post was more about the OP learning how to work with wood and maybe enjoying it. Not trying to redesign his idea. But the points are valid concerning the center upright post. It is not necessary.

 

[exnisstech]

I like to run 2x4 through a table saw using a fence taking just a little off both narrow sides to assure they strait. It's really the only way to be 100 % strait. No piece of wood is going to be perfect.

 

[Gtinnel]

I like to run 2x4 through a table saw using a fence taking just a little off both narrow sides to assure they strait. It's really the only way to be 100 % strait. No piece of wood is going to be perfect.

I’d argue a jointer is the better tool but not as common unless you’re into wood working.

 

[RedoubtReef]

How are you on woodworking tools or access to them? Dimensional lumber like that can have lots of issues with cupping/warping/twisting. You could go with a plywood stand (has to be a good quality plywood like Baltic Birch or a marine BS 1088 rated plywood). It might add to cost of building your stand, but it will give you lots of room under the stand. This is a great example that I have seen recently: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/kodskis-80gal-office-lagoon.820931/#post-9029062

here's another idea that doesn't require to many tools:

 

[exnisstech]

I’d argue a jointer is the better tool but not as common unless you’re into wood working.

I won't argue that but I haven't seen one since I took woodworking in high school. I would love to have a jointer and a planer. I live where there are Amish saw mills so I could buy rough sawn lumber and finish it. Momma threw a fit when I bought a table saw, radial arm saw, router and table all at once to make a tank stand so I don't see anything new coming my way. Unless I can convince her I'm making something for her but I still owe her a cabinet that hasn't been started

 

[ReeferCPA]

Don't go out and buy more 2x4s to replace pieces. If you want to fix and use this stand, spend your money on some good clamps, a bottle of tightbond 2 or 3, and a square. Start at one upright, back out the screws, get everything lined up right, squirt some glue in, and then clamp it down HARD. Then re-screw and leave it for a couple hours with the clamp on.

You don't need the vertical center braces - it's just going to make the stand a pain to get into. Use those 2x4s to buddy up those uprights (put them in front of/outside the uprights). You may need one or 2 more 2x4s to get all the uprights reinforced.

@kolleradam
Just an add-on for the above quote: If you go this route, make new holes when you rescrew on atleast 2 of the 3 screws. Otherwise the screws will want to just follow the old holes for their path. Then you're back crooked again, even though you did extra work to ensure straightness.

Oh and always Titebond 3, but I'm just a snob.

 

[MoshJosh]

Like others have said, you are missing the two by fours underneath the top and bottom frame, the ones that would actually support the weight. Once those are in place the issues you’ve mentioned won’t matter.

also, for my peace of mind I like to use deck screws or other higher strength corrosion resistant screws, and Wood glue. Titebond II or III work very well.