Do i have a stagnant cycle? (first tank)

[fisherc92]

Hey thanks for taking the time to read my post. First time saltwater aquarium here, with a 40G AIO system.
1.024 salinity, 79 degrees. alkalinity at 9.4 steady. ph steady at 8. Phosphate was at .34 on aug.10, now down to .13
feeding reef nano frenzy twice daily. a normal amount, trying to keep hawkfish belly full.
constantly reading ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, all decent levels, day 27...

heres my timeline:
it was setup on 7/26
clownfish, 4 crabs, small amount of live rock, Dr Tims added on 7/30.

more live rock added on 8/2 (the "stump" in the middle was not live rock, off the shelf)

5Gal water change on 8/4
added seachem matrix on 8/7
red hawkfish, 3 snails and filter floss added on 8/8
added small amount of dry rock and superglued rock together, upgraded to neotherm heater, 6Gal water change on 8/10
added chemipure blue on 8/13
changed filter floss, 5Gal water change on 8/17
added fritz 900 and removed chemipure blue, turned off skimmer on 8/20 (blew off all rock with baster and got all detritus)
removed my filter floss on 8/21

This is ammonia today, 19 hours after adding fritz900

my nitrite , 19 hours after fritz900

Unfortunately the fritz 900 i added on 8/20 expired on 8/11. fritz told me it has a 50% potency at the time of use. i have not seen any drop in the big 3 here and i have 2 fish and 7 inverts in the tank. Im really trying to look out for them, i enjoy them alot. I can aquire dr tims or microbacter start xlm. Wasnt sure about pouring more or different brands of bacteria into my tank. looking for some knowledge. im all ears. my skimmer did go crazy and had a good amount of skimmate after all the rock and such was added. i have turned my RedSea90 down to about 15% blue and 8% white. i have had no real algae. some brown diatom on the bottom and ive kept the glass clean, another mistake im sure.
i added two small flat rocks of two little fishies and the big "stump". did that cause a stall? maybe something else?

 

[mijan]

You can use more bottled bacteria and even different brands if you want. It won't harm anything and will be beneficial.

 

[brandon429]

Fisher

in this thread here we talk about api always showing free ammonia

API Ammonia Test Kit

Ive seen a lot of posts saying that the api ammonia test kits are inaccurate and shouldn't be trusted... Is there any scientific research proving that api is marketing a faulty kit? Is it possible that one aquarist got a hold of a bad kit and now everyone is going around repeating one persons...

www.reef2reef.com

yours is ok. That is enough live rock to run your bioload, it can’t be a stuck cycle here (No reef cycle stalls, thats an api notion the hobby picked up, which seneye has now clarified)


the way surface area works in reefing is you either have enough, and the fish + feed is controlled and the fish lives, or it’s not enough surface area and your intended bioload dies, in about two days max.

api reports a middle ground where only the test kit registers a problem, but the animals keep living past 48 hrs. Acting normally

(slight ammonia burning makes the fish die, in 48 hours)

Uncontrolled ammonia nh3 is never without consequence, it’s exactly as lethal as an animal that loses its kidney function. Two days max is the predicted maximum sustain time in any reef where ammonia isn’t under control.


*minus the usual sand, thats a lower surface area reef than most, make sure zero feed is wasted and caught in the system to degrade. Be feeding him in such small increments, he eats 100% of feed.


change water, clear it up its clouding a bit


there is no degree that those api kits will inform you about your cycle, see the tank instead. keep water clear, keep up current approach it’s working fine. A benefit to a low surface area reef is it will not store up filthy clogging detritus you can clean it off the glass, this makes the reef have an ageless lifespan potential, clogging waste is what ages reef tanks. Without it they’ll live with no lifespan limit


that those live rocks have been handling boosted feeding and fish and it’s all good and sharp vs dead specifically means the rocks are totally cycled and have no more room for bacteria. To complete a cycle fills up every available space, rule of vital space in population biology. the rocks have as much bacteria now as they can present to wastewater

You would add more surface area if you suspected something was lacking

 

[brandon429]

We dont factor nitrite


various additives cause false positives. It’s neutral even if there is some, we don’t factor nitrite. Make sure to not over feed and do a big water change, that’s the only action needed. Double up on that live rock it’s from a darn good source.

 

[fisherc92]

Fisher

in this thread here we talk about api always showing free ammonia

API Ammonia Test Kit

Ive seen a lot of posts saying that the api ammonia test kits are inaccurate and shouldn't be trusted... Is there any scientific research proving that api is marketing a faulty kit? Is it possible that one aquarist got a hold of a bad kit and now everyone is going around repeating one persons...

www.reef2reef.com

yours is ok. That is enough live rock to run your bioload, it can’t be a stuck cycle here (No reef cycle stalls, thats an api notion the hobby picked up, which seneye has now clarified)


the way surface area works in reefing is you either have enough, and the fish + feed is controlled and the fish lives, or it’s not enough surface area and your intended bioload dies, in about two days max.

api reports a middle ground where only the test kit registers a problem, but the animals keep living past 48 hrs. Acting normally

(slight ammonia burning makes the fish die, in 48 hours)

Uncontrolled ammonia nh3 is never without consequence, it’s exactly as lethal as an animal that loses its kidney function. Two days max is the predicted maximum sustain time in any reef where ammonia isn’t under control.


*minus the usual sand, thats a lower surface area reef than most, make sure zero feed is wasted and caught in the system to degrade. Be feeding him in such small increments, he eats 100% of feed.


change water, clear it up its clouding a bit


there is no degree that those api kits will inform you about your cycle, see the tank instead. keep water clear, keep up current approach it’s working fine. A benefit to a low surface area reef is it will not store up filthy clogging detritus you can clean it off the glass, this makes the reef have an ageless lifespan potential, clogging waste is what ages reef tanks. Without it they’ll live with no lifespan limit


that those live rocks have been handling boosted feeding and fish and it’s all good and sharp vs dead specifically means the rocks are totally cycled and have no more room for bacteria. To complete a cycle fills up every available space, rule of vital space in population biology. the rocks have as much bacteria now as they can present to wastewater

You would add more surface area if you suspected something was lacking

We dont factor nitrite


various additives cause false positives. It’s neutral even if there is some, we don’t factor nitrite. Make sure to not over feed and do a big water change, that’s the only action needed. Double up on that live rock it’s from a darn good source.

i appreciate your response.
im thinking im gonna do a 10Gal water change with another good blowoff of my rockwork. heres some questions:

should i turn my skimmer back on?
i am running seachem biomatrix, i can add more or add more rock from my LFS. your route?
is there an ammonia kit i should test with?
would you add more fish ?

 

[K7BMG]

I would stop and give the tank time to adjust and balance itself out.
Don't add any more livestock, rock, or change anything for a couple of weeks.
Lightly feed and yes I think if you have fish in a tank the skimmer should be in operation.
Do your testing of ammonia to see that it drops.
Watch the fish and their breathing. If the seem to be in distress then act.

 

[LegendaryCG]

Add another bottle of Fritz/Biospira/etc if you are concerned. I’m more inclined to question the test kit.

 

[brandon429]

Wait for total sustained water clarity before adding more fish, plus you need to select a disease protocol or theyll die of mixed diseases vs ammonia. They can’t be added one by one like freshwater setups, it’s new vectoring each time. Within eight months they die off one by one


you have enough surface area with the bio matrix noted, thats extra. Adding more bac needs attachment points or it wastes the purchase to add it to surface area already filled with bacteria. It will float in the water with no where to attach, skimmed out. Always run the skimmer if you own one.

I wouldn’t bother getting an ammonia test. After cycling you don’t need to test for it, cycling is done when a bioload stays alive for two days, or several days etc.
the thread example shows only seneye is worth investing in, or a lab monitored probe. Buying non seneye test kits is asking for false readings.

if you change water, have no clouding, always run your skimmer, then when you add more fish after selecting a specific disease protocol so they wont die fast, the amount of surface area you have is enough - or your current fish would already be gone. It’s hard to not believe the tester am aware, those were supposed to be undeniable. We can find several bare bottom setups, with that degree of live rock, keeping eight fish. But they did fallow plus prophylaxis prep and had time to adapt it all

 

[fisherc92]

Wait for total sustained water clarity before adding more fish, plus you need to select a disease protocol or theyll die of mixed diseases vs ammonia. They can’t be added one by one like freshwater setups, it’s new vectoring each time. Within eight months they die off one by one


you have enough surface area with the bio matrix noted, thats extra. Adding more bac needs attachment points or it wastes the purchase to add it to surface area already filled with bacteria. It will float in the water with no where to attach, skimmed out. Always run the skimmer if you own one.

I wouldn’t bother getting an ammonia test. After cycling you don’t need to test for it, cycling is done when a bioload stays alive for two days, or several days etc.
the thread example shows only seneye is worth investing in, or a lab monitored probe. Buying non seneye test kits is asking for false readings.

if you change water, have no clouding, always run your skimmer, then when you add more fish after selecting a specific disease protocol so they wont die fast, the amount of surface area you have is enough - or your current fish would already be gone. It’s hard to not believe the tester am aware, those were supposed to be undeniable. We can find several bare bottom setups, with that degree of live rock, keeping eight fish. But they did fallow plus prophylaxis prep and had time to adapt it all

appreciate the posts. i did about a 10Gal water change and turned back on my skimmer 24 hours ago. Ive done a couple water tests today and havent had any drop in ammonia or nitrite, and a rise in nitrate.
im thinking of adding microbacter start XLM tomorrow.

even with no falloff with nitrite and nitrates after a water change you still think im where i should be?

 

[brandon429]

There’s no where for more bacteria to attach in your system, the current surface area is used up, it’s why all your stuff is alive. You are using test kits that can’t measure a cycle accurately is where the concern is, notice how the fish swims and eats normally. If those params were bad he wouldn’t


you have test issues not a cycle issue. You’ve already added fritz any extra bac is a waste. The only param that matters in cycling is nh3 ammonia and thats under control here, even without fritz

 

[brandon429]

how is this tank can you post a pic

we are tracking nitrite-concerned cycles, really needing a full tank shot here and actually another nitrite reading if possible