Do I just need to rip clean and start over?

[kdx7214]

I have a 75 gallon DT with a 40 gallon sump. It's been up and running for roughly two year now. The only coral I can get to survive is GSP and a single gorgonian. Everything else has died. I check water parameters weekly, do water changes weekly, and with only two exceptions everything seems to be in order. The pH is always around 7.6 +/- 0.1, and the alkalinity is always high. I've checked CO2 in the house and it's running around 430, so that's not expected to be problematic. I use ro/di water and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt.

I suspect the valonia came in on the FL live rock. I also got some nifty red macro algae as well, but the valonia and GHA are killing everything else.

For valonia control I remove the affected rock, pick off the bubbles with a toothpick, drop 3% H2O2 onto the rock where the valonia was with an eyedropper, rinse with saltwater, and place back in the tank. The dang stuff is growing on the underside of the rockwork in the complete dark.

One thing that surprised me. I cannot keep chaeto alive in this tank. I started with the typical refugium in the sump, and it slowly died away to nothing.

Right now I have a sand sifting goby, a lawnmower blenny, an unknown type of blenny, and a firefish goby in the tank.

I'd love to be able to keep some sort of coral alive. I want to get something that I can be proud to say "I'm keeping this piece of the ocean alive."

The tank has been under-maintained for a few months now due to illness in the family, but to be honest I can't tell any significant difference between now and when I was taking care of it weekly. There hasn't been a water change in a month now, and I've not run water tests in quite some time. But hey, the GSP is growing

So, am I better off just ripping the dang thing apart, putting what few living things there are in small temporary tanks, and rip cleaning the whole dang thing, or is there something else I should try first before resorting to such extreme action? I've attached some pictures I just took. This is before cleaning to show it at it's worst.

 

[legionofdoon]

Are you feeding enough?

 

[kdx7214]

Are you feeding enough?

I feed a cube of frozen mysis/krill/phyto every day, so I hope I am. Based on the algae growth I might be feeding too much, but not sure.

 

[KnH]

I would do an ICP to see if there is anything abnormal going on before ripping

 

[kdx7214]

I would do an ICP to see if there is anything abnormal going on before ripping

I've not really been able to do an ICP for a while just due to cost and the confusing variety of companies doing them. Any recommendations on the brands that are reliable? I'm just sort of lost on that right now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a 75 gallon DT with a 40 gallon sump. It's been up and running for roughly two year now. The only coral I can get to survive is GSP and a single gorgonian. Everything else has died. I check water parameters weekly, do water changes weekly, and with only two exceptions everything seems to be in order. The pH is always around 7.6 +/- 0.1, and the alkalinity is always high. I've checked CO2 in the house and it's running around 430, so that's not expected to be problematic. I use ro/di water and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals salt.

I suspect the valonia came in on the FL live rock. I also got some nifty red macro algae as well, but the valonia and GHA are killing everything else.

For valonia control I remove the affected rock, pick off the bubbles with a toothpick, drop 3% H2O2 onto the rock where the valonia was with an eyedropper, rinse with saltwater, and place back in the tank. The dang stuff is growing on the underside of the rockwork in the complete dark.

One thing that surprised me. I cannot keep chaeto alive in this tank. I started with the typical refugium in the sump, and it slowly died away to nothing.

Right now I have a sand sifting goby, a lawnmower blenny, an unknown type of blenny, and a firefish goby in the tank.

I'd love to be able to keep some sort of coral alive. I want to get something that I can be proud to say "I'm keeping this piece of the ocean alive."

The tank has been under-maintained for a few months now due to illness in the family, but to be honest I can't tell any significant difference between now and when I was taking care of it weekly. There hasn't been a water change in a month now, and I've not run water tests in quite some time. But hey, the GSP is growing

So, am I better off just ripping the dang thing apart, putting what few living things there are in small temporary tanks, and rip cleaning the whole dang thing, or is there something else I should try first before resorting to such extreme action? I've attached some pictures I just took. This is before cleaning to show it at it's worst.

I see this tank as very workable to get back to normal look.
Assure Phosphates and even nitrates are not elevated. Blennies while they eat algae and need algae in their diet are not true algae eaters and instead eat small meaty foods, detritus, inverts and gnaw on rock for calcium needs. The upper algae can be pressed with thumb pressure and peeled off or scraped off with a plastic putty knife or similar tool.
Lower white intensity a few days to weaken the light source that supports this algae. Some good cleaners are:
Pencil urchin
Fighting conch
a few Carribean blue leg hermit crabs
pitho crabs

Snails: Astrea-turbo grazer-nerith and cerith

 

[kdx7214]

I see this tank as very workable to get back to normal look.
Assure Phosphates and even nitrates are not elevated. Blennies while they eat algae and need algae in their diet are not true algae eaters and instead eat small meaty foods, detritus, inverts and gnaw on rock for calcium needs. The upper algae can be pressed with thumb pressure and peeled off or scraped off with a plastic putty knife or similar tool.
Lower white intensity a few days to weaken the light source that supports this algae. Some good cleaners are:
Pencil urchin
Fighting conch
a few Carribean blue leg hermit crabs
pitho crabs

Snails: Astrea-turbo grazer-nerith and cerith

I can do all of that, and have done so in the past (although sans urchins). I have several hermits in there as well as various types of snails (I got a 75g cleanup crew at one point). I guess I'm more concerned about getting rid of the valonia infestation and what the heck do I do to keep corals alive?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I can do all of that, and have done so in the past (although sans urchins). I have several hermits in there as well as various types of snails (I got a 75g cleanup crew at one point). I guess I'm more concerned about getting rid of the valonia infestation and what the heck do I do to keep corals alive?

For valonia - Not all hermits will eat them and algae but I take a small needle and have 3/8 tubing ready and attach to end of tubing with rubber band and pop each one and siphon at same time- You will have removed all spores and foreign material in the area.
I Had to do this in the past with birdsnest coral and was gone 100%.

 

[KnH]

I think it would be worthwhile before going to the Nuclear option, I haven't done an ICP test, but lots of info out there

ICP Labs - Are the Reported Results Geared Toward the Hobby

In another thread the question of significant/insignificant decimal places reported in an ICP analysis was brought up. This raises the question that even though these labs are testing specifically for the hobby, are the results they are reporting actually geared toward the hobby? What level of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Conchman]

If it were my tank I would not nuke, not yet, I have seen much worse come back. Get into some good habits, testing and maintenance as needed based on testing. Notice...testing twice...I never went without a week for testing, and I had a real stable tank. Numbers rarely moved, when they did I could react. I kept the numbers every time I tested, still have them. Noted changes...keep a log if you think it is worth it. Good luck, I will keep tabs on this one...

 

[brandon429]

Rip cleans aren't stressful or a nuke they're just deep cleaning. The original cycle continues so its no reset

However that looks like a post rip cleaned tank already

If you rip clean the tank then it's sandbed would be free of waste but that cross section doesn't look blackened and aged.

One thing a rip clean does accomplish is giving you a tank with totally clean crevices ready to accept food waste

So corals grow because feeding hasn't sinked up your tank yet

And when it does need to be ripped clean it'll look advanced with age and accumulation pigments, and an invasion is usually present so you can repeat for a fresh start

For rocks with valonia Id externally rasp them clean with a knife tip. Surgically scraped removal then rinse in peroxide after detailing was completed. Put rocks back, repeat if needed

 

[kdx7214]

Rip cleans aren't stressful or a nuke they're just deep cleaning. The original cycle continues so its no reset

However that looks like a post rip cleaned tank already

If you rip clean the tank then it's sandbed would be free of waste but that cross section doesn't look blackened and aged.

One thing a rip clean does accomplish is giving you a tank with totally clean crevices ready to accept food waste

So corals grow because feeding hasn't sinked up your tank yet

And when it does need to be ripped clean it'll look advanced with age and accumulation pigments, and an invasion is usually present so you can repeat for a fresh start

For rocks with valonia Id externally rasp them clean with a knife tip. Surgically scraped removal then rinse in peroxide after detailing was completed. Put rocks back, repeat if needed

Actually, the clean sand is just the work of the sand sifting blenny. We named him Professor Chaos for that very reason. Nothing special has been done so far. I guess I'm going to have to take everything apart, remove the rocks from the tank, remove the valonia externally, use peroxide, rinse, and put them all back together again. That's going to be one heck of a mess, but I guess not much else will work.

 

[kdx7214]

If it were my tank I would not nuke, not yet, I have seen much worse come back. Get into some good habits, testing and maintenance as needed based on testing. Notice...testing twice...I never went without a week for testing, and I had a real stable tank. Numbers rarely moved, when they did I could react. I kept the numbers every time I tested, still have them. Noted changes...keep a log if you think it is worth it. Good luck, I will keep tabs on this one...

I had been doing weekly testing and logging for over a year when my wife got cancer. Everything sort of went by the wayside at that point. But the problems were happening even before then. When I got a couple of SPS frags to test with, they both RTN'd in a few days. The parameters all looked great at the time.

 

[Patx]

Hi,
You can't keep cheato ?

No3?
Po4?

 

[SpursFan]

Only reason to rip a tank down is if you have rocks leaching something toxic and with living fish, inverts and algae you don't have that problem. If algae is living and corals dying there's a specific reason for it. Before anyone can help resolve that you'd need to post more details and tank parameters and ensuring they are stable. The alages can easily be addressed with the right CUC.

My two cents with what you posted, you have incorrect or fluctuating parameters and incorrect lighting for the SPS you added.

 

[legionofdoon]

Hi,
You can't keep cheato ?

No3?
Po4?

That's what I was inferring.

 

[Patx]

That's what I was inferring.

My cheato dies if starve of no3.
What are your parameters.

And honestly, your tank look good !
Ok ok... not perfectly as you wish...but still...
I seen worst!

 

[Reef.]

A couple of comments in your OP have me thinking the issue may be with you, you say your lvls are within range then go on to say your PH is 7.6 which is extremely low and you then say your alk is always high, which isn’t in itself a problem but you don’t say what it is, also alk doesn’t t need to be high, it just needs to be stable, it can be as low as 7dkh…short answer is I don’t think a rip clean is the answer here as if the issue is you, you are just going to get the same results.

 

[kdx7214]

A couple of comments in your OP have me thinking the issue may be with you, you say your lvls are within range then go on to say your PH is 7.6 which is extremely low and you then say your alk is always high, which isn’t in itself a problem but you don’t say what it is, also alk doesn’t t need to be high, it just needs to be stable, it can be as low as 7dkh…short answer is I don’t think a rip clean is the answer here as if the issue is you, you are just going to get the same results.

According to my logs, the last test results were:

pH: 7.57
Alk: 12.8
Ca: 336
NO3: 0.12
PO4: 0.09

 

[Reef.]

According to my logs, the last test results were:

pH: 7.57
Alk: 12.8
Ca: 336
NO3: 0.12
PO4: 0.09

Your PH is not going to be that low, PH is not easy to test, magnesium is a test you should be doing, what test kit do you use for po4? And how do you check your salinity? anther important parameter you need to be checking, there is probably an easy to fix explanation for this, you just need to check the obvious as that is likely the issue here.