Do I make changes based on one ICP?

[12gallonsofhex]

I just got my ICP results back through ICP Analysis.com. My calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium numbers are about 100ppm higher than my home test results. I have used 2 different brands (Salifert and now Nyos) that agreed with each other when I ran out of the former and started using the latter.
So now I am questioning whether I make changes to where I keep my parameters based on my ICP results by keeping levels lower knowing they are actually higher, or do I disregard the ICP results. Also, if I disregard the results than why am I paying $55 to test?
Any insights from my fellow reefers would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Dan_P]

I just got my ICP results back through ICP Analysis.com. My calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium numbers are about 100ppm higher than my home test results. I have used 2 different brands (Salifert and now Nyos) that agreed with each other when I ran out of the former and started using the latter.
So now I am questioning whether I make changes to where I keep my parameters based on my ICP results by keeping levels lower knowing they are actually higher, or do I disregard the ICP results. Also, if I disregard the results than why am I paying $55 to test?
Any insights from my fellow reefers would be much appreciated. Thanks.

I am not sure why anyone gives much credence to ICP measurements. Do vendors guarantee accuracy? Do they provide you with a standard deviation of their results? Do they double check odd or extreme readings or just send them to you? Do they give you reason to believe that the water you sent does not degrade during the days in shipping?

I am definitely not spinning a conspiracy theory, just pointing out that you are unlikely to have the data to trust the results. There is a method to get around this problem: multiple sample testing of the same water sample and periodic testing to discern trends. A costly requirement to deal with a vendor’s shortcomings.

 

[SMSREEF]

Did you test the same time/day that you sent in test?

what test kit do you use for sodium? I have never seen one.

what were the actual results? If both within normal limits I would just disregard.

$55 seems excessive. especially for test that may be wrong. You may want to look at tropic marin. But don’t expect rapid turn around time for the results.

 

[12gallonsofhex]

I am not sure why anyone gives much credence to ICP measurements. Do vendors guarantee accuracy? Do they provide you with a standard deviation of their results? Do they double check odd or extreme readings or just send them to you? Do they give you reason to believe that the water you sent does not degrade during the days in shipping?

I am definitely not spinning a conspiracy theory, just pointing out that you are unlikely to have the data to trust the results. There is a method to get around this problem: multiple sample testing of the same water sample and periodic testing to discern trends. A costly requirement to deal with a vendor’s shortcomings.

I have been reading some other threads about this, and probably should have before I posted, and am feeling like I could have spent the $50+ better on my reef. I assumed that it was a lab grade test that was more accurate. I had my first doubts when the collection tube came with the cap off and open to whatever elements that may make their way into the loosely closed cardboard box. At least I have results I like as far as heavy metals so I guess I will believe those and discount the rest. Lol, nothing like a little confirmation bias to make a guy feel good.

 

[12gallonsofhex]

Did you test the same time/day that you sent in test?

what test kit do you use for sodium? I have never seen one.

what were the actual results? If both within normal limits I would just disregard.

$55 seems excessive. especially for test that may be wrong. You may want to look at tropic marin. But don’t expect rapid turn around time for the results.

I dont have a test for sodium, but took a water sample and tested with my test kits at the same minute that I collected the ICP sample. It was $30+ for the test and $20 for UPS shipping. Around $55 total.
I like Tropic Marin and am using their salt/dosing products. I might give them a shot based on my trust in their company. Not worried about quick results, but I need to be able to trust the info.

 

[SMSREEF]

I have been reading some other threads about this, and probably should have before I posted, and am feeling like I could have spent the $50+ better on my reef. I assumed that it was a lab grade test that was more accurate. I had my first doubts when the collection tube came with the cap off and open to whatever elements that may make their way into the loosely closed cardboard box. At least I have results I like as far as heavy metals so I guess I will believe those and discount the rest. Lol, nothing like a little confirmation bias to make a guy feel good.

Don’t get down on yourself. I spent close to $200 on bacteria in a bottle to have a more diverse biome in my new tank started with dead rock; but I should have spent that money on real live rock. Lessons learned
Most of us get taken in by the claims made by vendors that do not need to prove results or even post ingredients on their products.

I would disregard the test unless you see problems with corals in your tank.

 

[12gallonsofhex]

Don’t get down on yourself. I spent close to $200 on bacteria in a bottle to have a more diverse biome in my new tank started with dead rock; but I should have spent that money on real live rock. Lessons learned
Most of us get taken in by the claims made by vendors that do not need to prove results or even post ingredients on their products.

I would disregard the test unless you see problems with corals in your tank.

Lol! I did the same thing with bacteria for the same reason. I also will start my next reef with live rock from that company in Florida or Mexico. Cant remember which website I found. I started my first reef back in '99 with zero knowledge and live rock. I started this one with tons of research and dry rock. Guess which one had zero issues and which one has had dinos, and tons of cyano outbreaks?

 

[SMSREEF]

Lol! I did the same thing with bacteria for the same reason. I also will start my next reef with live rock from that company in Florida or Mexico. Cant remember which website I found. I started my first reef back in '99 with zero knowledge and live rock. I started this one with tons of research and dry rock. Guess which one had zero issues and which one has had dinos, and tons of cyano outbreaks?

Lol, I know which one had zero issues, but months ago I didn’t.., so I started with dead rock and got Dino’s and then chrysophytes.
I feel your pain.

 

[Dan_P]

I have been reading some other threads about this, and probably should have before I posted, and am feeling like I could have spent the $50+ better on my reef. I assumed that it was a lab grade test that was more accurate. I had my first doubts when the collection tube came with the cap off and open to whatever elements that may make their way into the loosely closed cardboard box. At least I have results I like as far as heavy metals so I guess I will believe those and discount the rest. Lol, nothing like a little confirmation bias to make a guy feel good.

 

[Dalalen]

As contradicted this might sound, sometimes you have to trust your gut instinct. ICP is still just a guideline, a good one at that, however, do what you feel is right. Use what you and everyone else has learned as the best practice in this hobby. I will not invest into ICP, because i feel that with experience is far more than lab test.

A good example is lab test were really not available 20 years ago and many reefers have made far more success than without a test than with one.

I apologize if this created more confusion than helped.

 

[Daniel92481]

IMO, ICP testing is useful to determine different trace elements of unwanted metals. If your home testing numbers are consistent and your corals look good, I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[User1]

I think you are going to get varying opinions on this. It is a hot topic here in another forum already mentioned. I honestly believe the onus is on the hobbyist to make this decision on their own. Since it was asked here let me give mine for what it is worth. The question was do I make changes based on one icp test. The short answer is...get ready for this...it depends . Shorter answer is yes. If the change makes sense to me.

I prefer ATI's ICP tests. I like their customer service, speed is fine for me, and additional RODI test (for what that is worth). Price is moot. I send off 2 to 3 a year and I only use it as a outside reference for water chemistry. Before I send it off, and since I use a Trident, I take a cup of water at 11:55 AM just before the tridents noon test. I run a manual test, fill the tubes ATI uses, and then note my results and date down. ATI's results come back and now I can compare to my manual tests, Tridents, and ATI's. And....they are always within their respected margin of error.

Should you make a change or should I? Short answer is it depends. In my case I did. Two times now. First time ATI came back and it said my salinity was off. I didn't believe it because my two tools said otherwise. I sent ATI a message, they replied the next day, I replied back, then even posted here. Lads here in the chemistry sub forum asked a simple question. Do I use a reference solution? I said no. They said ATI is probably right and go get some or make it. I ordered it, used it as instructed, and guess what? ATI was right. ATI 1, Scotty 0. Tank was doing ok more or less but I did see one fish stressed so maybe related, maybe not - but ATI ICP found a issue that I had.

Second time or another test came back and was reporting lower iodine. Again did some reading and found out that it may or may not be needed but if dosed properly it shouldn't hurt. Ok, so look at ATI's recommendation, dosing recommendations, dose, and guess what. Next ICP results came back with no iodine correction .

Currently it is reporting my RODI and said it should be changed. Maybe, maybe not. I know it has been about a year and a half so I'm replacing the cartridges. I'll be sending off an ICP test next week after I make a new batch and will compare those results.

So here is the deal in my case. Yes, I made a change based on the results. I actually made 2. Both cases it has corrected the issue they reported. I also use it as a outside source into my water chemistry. I do not dose additives based on the results - so not triton or red sea, etc. I dose Tropic Marin All For Reef though. Previously it was ESV 2 part.

TLR - it is an outside view of your water chemistry. Use as a reference I believe it is a great tool. Depending on the recommendation based on its finding, I may or may not. I personally have though.