Do I need a WXM?

[N2950H]

Hey guys, I just picked up an Apex Classic and as an Apex newbie I have a question. Nothing is set up yet since my tank gets delivered tommorrow but my basic setup is:

Hydra 26 HDs
Maxspect XF330s
Vectra S1
Skimmer is undecided thus far

The lights and gyres have their own controllers so I don't plan to tie them into the Apex, but is there any reason I may want to add a WXM module to control the return pump? I don't want to buy unnecessary equipment but I'm setting up my control board and wondering if I need to leave room for a WXM. I tend to think I don't need one now, but maybe it would be beneficial if I added an MP10 or two to the back glass? Anything else that may drive the need for one?

 

[road_runner]

Hey guys, I just picked up an Apex Classic and as an Apex newbie I have a question. Nothing is set up yet since my tank gets delivered tommorrow but my basic setup is:

Hydra 26 HDs
Maxspect XF330s
Vectra S1
Skimmer is undecided thus far

The lights and gyres have their own controllers so I don't plan to tie them into the Apex, but is there any reason I may want to add a WXM module to control the return pump? I don't want to buy unnecessary equipment but I'm setting up my control board and wondering if I need to leave room for a WXM. I tend to think I don't need one now, but maybe it would be beneficial if I added an MP10 or two to the back glass? Anything else that may drive the need for one?

Wxm will lack some of the functions in the vectra like calibration..
I would recommend you invest in ecotech reeflink. This will give you control over vectra, vortech and other ecotech products.
I used to have wxm but ended up putting it aside and got a reef link to get all the features vectra has...

 

[N2950H]

Great, something else I know nothing about.

I'll have to read up on the reeflink. Thanks!

 

[Brett S]

Unless something has changed recently you can’t control the Vectra with an apex... wxm or not. The wxm will give you control of Radion lights and EcoTech wave pumps, but for some reason EcoTech decided not to allow apex control of the vectra’s. This is the reason I don’t own a Vectra.

 

[ca1ore]

That is correct - vectra is not compatible with WXM. Reeflink is better for rations, broadly equivalent for vortech.

 

[Brett S]

Honestly I think there is a big advantage to allowing one device, like the apex to control everything. Sure you could get an apex to control some things and a Vectra and a reeflink to control it, but that means that you need to use two interfaces for programming. It also means that the apex isn’t in control of everything

For example you could program a a feed mode that turns down the return pump and wave pumps for a short time during feeding. But this isn’t possible if the apex doesn’t control the return pump.

You could set it up so that the apex automatically turns off the skimmer if the return pump is off so the skimmer doesn’t overflow when the water level in the sump is higher. But you can’t do this if the apex doesn’t control the return pump.

If you’re serious about automation then I think the apex is far from perfect, but I also think the best option available right now. And I think it is definitely worth getting equipment that the apex can directly control.

 

[ca1ore]

I, on the other had, believe there is under appreciated risk in having one device control everything. Sure, it’s easier, but it also introduces the single-point-of-failure problem. What would happen to your tank if the apex malfunctioned? In my case it would be inconvenient, but it would not be catastrophic. Almost anything my apex controls has levels of redundancy outside apex; though in most cases I only use it to monitor and send alerts. Worth thinking about as your system grows in size, complexity ..... and sunk cost.

 

[Brett S]

I, on the other had, believe there is under appreciated risk in having one device control everything. Sure, it’s easier, but it also introduces the single-point-of-failure problem. What would happen to your tank if the apex malfunctioned? In my case it would be inconvenient, but it would not be catastrophic. Almost anything my apex controls has levels of redundancy outside apex; though in most cases I only use it to monitor and send alerts. Worth thinking about as your system grows in size, complexity ..... and sunk cost.

There is definitely something to be said for risk and single points of failure, however, the apex can be made to be pretty fault tolerant. I have three power bars connected to my apex and all three are on different circuits. If one or even two circuits were to fail the apex would still keep running. Obviously whatever was plugged into the power bars on the circuit(s) that failed would no longer work, but the apex can keep controlling what is left and alert me to let me know that there is a problem.

To this end I have redundant return pumps and redundant heaters connected to different power bars and different circuits, so even with the loss of one circuit the tank will continue to have flow and be heated.

Even if the ‘brain’ of the apex were to fail the outlets in the power bars and other equipment can have a ‘fallback’ setting which tells it whether that outlet or that equipment should run or not when communication with the apex has been lost so the whole tank won’t just shut down if the apex does fail for some reason.

Obviously everything has risk and it’s worth considering that risk and trying to plan for any foreseeable failures, but I believe that the risk with a properly configured apex is fairly low and the small risk is worth the trade off in convenience and automation.

 

[road_runner]

I think adding something like lights and power heads to apex is not only unnecessary but adding unnecessary risk.
Lights and power head are something you are suppose to set and forget.

I used to apex on everything then actually started using notice apps of equipments if available.
My lights now use their own wifi and app
My vortch use their reef link
..etc

 

[Brett S]

I think adding something like lights and power heads to apex is not only unnecessary but adding unnecessary risk.
Lights and power head are something you are suppose to set and forget.

I think there can definitely be advantages to connecting everything to the apex. With the lights and power heads connected to the apex you could do things like configure a one button ‘acclimation mode’ that would dim the lights and reduce the intensity of the power heads when you’re adding something new to the tank. Could you do this without an apex? Certainly, but it wouldn’t be as quick or easy... you’d need to go into the app for your lights to dim them, then go into the app for your power heads to lower their intensity.

With the lights connected to the apex you can have the apex shut off the lights automatically if the tank temp gets too high. This might be less of an issue with LED lights than it would be with metal halide, but if the tank is going over temp then every little bit can help.

And I love the fact that I can check one app whether I’m home or away from home to see that everything in the tank is operating as expected. I can see at a glance that my lights are in communication with my apex and turned on and I can see that my power heads are operating as expected. If I want to make a change to any part of the system there is only one app I need to open up to make that change, no matter what I want to change. For me there is huge value in this.

Certainly one person’s definitely of ‘unnecessary’ is different than another’s, and the same with perceived risk, but in my opinion at least there is absolutely good reason to connect everything to the apex and as I said above I believe there is reasonably little risk in doing so.

 

[road_runner]

I think there can definitely be advantages to connecting everything to the apex. With the lights and power heads connected to the apex you could do things like configure a one button ‘acclimation mode’ that would dim the lights and reduce the intensity of the power heads when you’re adding something new to the tank. Could you do this without an apex? Certainly, but it wouldn’t be as quick or easy... you’d need to go into the app for your lights to dim them, then go into the app for your power heads to lower their intensity.

With the lights connected to the apex you can have the apex shut off the lights automatically if the tank temp gets too high. This might be less of an issue with LED lights than it would be with metal halide, but if the tank is going over temp then every little bit can help.

And I love the fact that I can check one app whether I’m home or away from home to see that everything in the tank is operating as expected. I can see at a glance that my lights are in communication with my apex and turned on and I can see that my power heads are operating as expected. If I want to make a change to any part of the system there is only one app I need to open up to make that change, no matter what I want to change. For me there is huge value in this.

Certainly one person’s definitely of ‘unnecessary’ is different than another’s, and the same with perceived risk, but in my opinion at least there is absolutely good reason to connect everything to the apex and as I said above I believe there is reasonably little risk in doing so.

All what you described can be done by using apex to the one thing that I can trust apex for...on off..
Apex is good for turning on off equipments which do not require extra modules over module...

 

[Brett S]

All what you described can be done by using apex to the one thing that I can trust apex for...on off..
Apex is good for turning on off equipments which do not require extra modules over module...

Hmm, why do you trust the apex to turn things on and off, but not for more control? It seems to me that if you don’t trust the apex or feel that it’s a single point of failure then you wouldn’t want to connect things like lights and powerheads to it, even just for on/off control.

I’m not trying to be obstinate here and I certainly don’t mean to tell you how you should or shouldn’t run your tank, but I’m not seeing the logic behind allowing the apex to have on/off control, but not giving it more than that.

 

[road_runner]

Hmm, why do you trust the apex to turn things on and off, but not for more control? It seems to me that if you don’t trust the apex or feel that it’s a single point of failure then you wouldn’t want to connect things like lights and powerheads to it, even just for on/off control.

I’m not trying to be obstinate here and I certainly don’t mean to tell you how you should or shouldn’t run your tank, but I’m not seeing the logic behind allowing the apex to have on/off control, but not giving it more than that.

Again it's not a matter of liking apex so I want everything through it.
There are tradeoffs and advantages in diffrent approaches
I think apex is good for things and not so good with others. There are certain advantages that comes with using native control of the vendor, as an example, you get more features out of vectra when you use their control instead of apex..
I also believe that it's better to reduce points of failures when possible. To me, having apex control every single equipment other than turning on off is an extra layer of failure that's all...As you said its personal preference.
Btw for the record if you notice I been saying had and used to.
After 6 years of using apex I am switching apex with GHL. But that's another story for diffrent thread.

 

[ca1ore]

There is definitely something to be said for risk and single points of failure, however, the apex can be made to be pretty fault tolerant. Obviously everything has risk and it’s worth considering that risk and trying to plan for any foreseeable failures, but I believe that the risk with a properly configured apex is fairly low and the small risk is worth the trade off in convenience and automation.

That’s fine, we all have different tolerances for risk. As long as you’ve thought it through and made informed choices. Lots of people put too much faith in technology then feel betrayed when the technology fails them. I personally will always have redundancy that exists outside of my apex (even though I have a silly number of modules), but that is my choice because it better serves my personal assessment of what constitutes acceptable levels of risk.

 

[N2950H]

Some good points above and I appreciate the discussion. In my case I purchased the Hydra 26 HDs and the XF330 Gyres before I caved and bought a used Apex Classic. I'm already committed to running lights and gyres with their own standalone controllers and I'm okay with that. Honestly the only reason I wanted an Apex was for the real time dashboard showing temp, pH, and salinity.

I'm not experienced enough to know whether or not I'm comfortable allowing a single controller run my entire tank. What I can say, though, is I'm not willing to limit my consideration of lights/pumps/whatever to only what the Apex can control. That is an increasingly restrictive list of products and just the concept irritates me greatly.