Do I need an Apex reef controller?

[sam2110]

Just making sure you are not misinformed. How fast do you get the alert from seneye?

What happen if you are on a meeting with your boss and cant check your phone?
Or you are driving on a bad reception area.

That delay can kill your fish/corals.

I also understand that the expense is high. But.. aren't all your fishes and corals also high expenses if you have to replace them all?

Lol I have an Apex on the list lol. It should be installed in the next month! I was throwing out other options for people.... I have been running the seneye for a while and it works well but I want a trident. I will not be buying the salinity prope though due to what my LFS has told.

 

[Joeg]

I have an Apex EL and at first I really felt like it was a necessary purchase but after a year I'm not sure I'd consider it a crucial as I once did. It's nice to temp and ph limits and alerts but, as others have pointed out, there's more than one way to accomplish this. I admittedly don't use the wavemaking features because I have a Hydros Wave Engine that I like a lot more than the Apex. I've also not set up AWC yet because I can't stomach the cost of the Apex 2 head dosing pump on top of an already expensive purchase.

If I were starting fresh with limited tech right now I'd go with the Wave Engine, an Inkbird and a KH Director. It's still a combo that would be over $1k but I think it would provide more value overall.

 

[dedragon]

+1 you dont need it, but makes things more convenient. Havent used the hydros controller but it looks to be the new controller option out there.
I say use your temp controller, just buy a new probe and coat it in a layer of silicone if you are afraid of rust. I use the teckin smart power strips for dosing that automatically stay off if a power outage occurs then power comes back. But like others idk how trustworthy the actual dosing pump itself is

 

[Yates273]

I was in the same boat as you. Do I really want to spend that kind of money? I ended up buying the El version and love it. I have just about everything running through my apex controlled via specific modules. It has saved me from a skimmer overflow a couple times already. The fact I can view my tanks parameters from anywhere is reassuring. As far as salinity probe. I opted not to get it since I periodically check my salinity with my Hannah pen but yes people do complain about issues. On the other hand how many people have no issues. Your not going hear people brag about how good their salinity probe is when it’s doing what it is suppose to, monitor salinity. In the end you do what you want to there are pros and cons but I feel the pros out way the cons. Good luck with your choice amd if you choose to buy one act now since Neptune is having a sale.
One other thing I am not the most tech savvy person but I learned a lot and the more I learn the easier it gets. There are plenty of people here that can walk you through just about anything amd for the Neptune SuncrestReef is your resident expert

 

[Rollman]

You def don’t need it like many things in the hobby. It just makes it more awesome

 

[Super Fly]

agree with others, dont NEED it. Just comes down to whether you WANT it. Seems like u r already very hands on, on top of tank husbandry, not a gear head and budget conscious. IMO, its not worth the $$$ esp if ur not the gear head type and wont enjoy it as ,much.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Nah, unless you travel a lot - then you need one of the many controllers available on the market. Just dont plug, I mean put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Ippyroy]

I love my Apex. I work 14 to 16 hours a day for 6 months of the year. The ability to program, monitor and control my tank from anywhere is crucial to my success. Get Apex EL and you will be happy. Pair it with a WYZE camera and I am comfortable leaving my tank for days at a time.
I personally hate my Trident and would not recommend it. If you can, get the Alkatronic and Dosetronic if you are a stick head. If not, a couple of cheap BRS dosing pumps controlled by the Apex is perfect.
As far as the seneye goes, you have to pay 200 bucks to have it on WiFi unless you have a computer close by and I prefer to have as few electronics around saltwater as possible. You also have to change the tabs out every month.
The salinity probe is not perfect. Mine says my salt is 37. The actual number is wrong, but it is still correct. By looking at the number I can tell if I need to fill the ATO.
You are planning to be out of the country for a few weeks. I would say you actually need it unless you have a fellow hobbyist to take care of you reef and already knows most everything about your setup. With the Apex EL and a cheap WYZE camera you could show someone your tank setup and go over the basics and be good to go. Any issues that might arise while you are gone, you would be able to walk them through how to correct until you got back.

 

[DoctaReef]

Do you need it? No. Your tank will hold water and fish and coral.

Do I recommend it? Absolutely. I ran a tank without one for years, lost alot of stuff and ruined alot of floors. The apex adds a degree of safety, stability and reliability that makes the investment in fish and coral much better.

Examples:
1. I use Trident controlled dosing with BRS 2 part... now I don't have to remember to test, add, retest, change the amount (x3 for alk, mg and Ca.) then add, test etc...
2. I use the apex for auto water changes. Now I don't have to carry buckets, spill them, over flow them, and find time to change the water weekly.
3. The Auto top off kit works well for replacing water and keeping the salinity stable.
4. Emergencies: Water on the floor sensor, high/low water level sensor, Temp sensor, Power monitoring and more... all get sent to my phone, and I can make most changes from my phone, rather than run home in a panic.

There's so many advantages, but the best one might be that I spend more time enjoying my tank than working on it and worrying about it.

This hobby, with all the moving parts and pieces, is a disaster waiting to happen. I think there's three types of reefers:
1) The reefer that has had a catastrophic crash or spill.
2) The reefer that hasn't had a catastrophic crash or spill but is lying about it.
3) The reefer that hasn't had a catastrophic crash or spill, but will.
With the Apex, your chances of something catastrophic happening are SIGNIFICANTLY decreased, and often can be recognized and avoided before its too late.
I'll never have a tank without one.

 

[Biologic]

Funny thing is, lots of people has apex with their salinity probe without issues.
I do want to know the percentage of how many complaints that neptune received for the Salinity issue and how many Apex they sold so far.

I am not discounting there is issue with the Salinity probe. But mine is working fine so far. And I also always double check with my refractometer weekly and if I see my probe goes way up or way down.

Exactly. I use my Salinity probe on my apex to monitor trends over a 24 hour period. Ie broken auto water top off can detect a drift up in salinity. Not an instant read salinity instrument for reading exactly 35 ppt. That’s what a refractometer is for. People have poor understanding what the Salinity probe on the apex is for. Yes, it’s sensitive, yes it’s delicate. It’s not required, but nice to have.

OP, my main need for an Apex is to keep my fish, coral, and myself safe. My hands stay dry and I don’t have to fiddle with plugs on power bars.

Can you reef without an controller? Yes.
Is it easier with one? Yes.
You you need it? No. But it is sure nice.

weight your decision based on people using controllers. Doesn’t have to be an apex. There’s many affordable options out there to make life easier.

 

[Tamberav]

No. Tanks existed before Apex and still exist.

 

[mike550]

@stanleo I think an Apex is a "nice to have" not a "must have". I'm a newbie reefer with a 120G for about the past 18 months. After a lot of thought and comparing it to GHL, I picked up an Apex in December. Here are a few of my thoughts.

1. It's nice to have the Apex as a backup / safety monitor. For example, my heater is using a separate controller, but if my tank temp goes too high or too low the Apex shuts off power to the heater and sends me an alert. I also have two moisture sensors that send me an alert if they detect water (which likely means a leak) and also then shuts down pumps and stuff.

2. It makes some things more convenient. I set up a few buttons so that when I want to do maintenance, I flip a switch and it turns off pumps, heater, etc. I also have an "Emergency" button that basically turns everything off as well.

3. No plans to connect it to a Trident, so I'm pretty much using my Apex for monitoring and limited control. But I still do manual water tests twice a week, etc.

4. For your gear you don't need to replace any of it. It's more about how much control can you get from your Apex. I really only use it to turn things on / off. I have a Vectra M2, two MP40s, and a Versa doser that all run off Mobius.

5. If you're planning a long vacation, you might be better off with a trusted "tank sitter". To fully automate everything that you might need (auto feed, ATO, auto water change, etc) might take a while and then you need to grow comfortable that it's working as expected.

One last thought -- having used the Apex for a few months it's definitely nice to have, and it makes some things easier. I know some people have "fully automated" their tanks but I'm not one of them. Also, knowing what I know now -- GHL might have been a better choice.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[slojim]

you gave a specific detail - you'll be out of touch with your tank for 6 weeks in a year. Try thinking about it this way: what is your plan to deal with the tank while you are away if you don't have a controller, vs what is your plan to deal with your tank if you do have a controller? Either way - you can't leave it alone for 6 weeks - will you have a friend coming by every few days? A service coming by 1-2x weekly? Something else?

I don't have a controller and never have. I do have some basic on-off functions through smart outlets. I really like the emergency-proofing abilities built in to a controller - leak detection? shut off pump and heater, put powerheads to max flow, engage air pump, notify someone, check camera, oh its a little skimmer overspray - restart system - and would set up one about 6-12 months in advance of a long trip like that. You can do it with smart outlets, but you'll have more proven, tested solutions in a controller.

You also don't need trip insurance, but for a big trip in a pandemic era you might get it. I view this similarly - a personal choice based on risk tolerance.

 

[Biologic]

you gave a specific detail - you'll be out of touch with your tank for 6 weeks in a year. Try thinking about it this way: what is your plan to deal with the tank while you are away if you don't have a controller, vs what is your plan to deal with your tank if you do have a controller? Either way - you can't leave it alone for 6 weeks - will you have a friend coming by every few days? A service coming by 1-2x weekly? Something else?

I don't have a controller and never have. I do have some basic on-off functions through smart outlets. I really like the emergency-proofing abilities built in to a controller - leak detection? shut off pump and heater, put powerheads to max flow, engage air pump, notify someone, check camera, oh its a little skimmer overspray - restart system - and would set up one about 6-12 months in advance of a long trip like that. You can do it with smart outlets, but you'll have more proven, tested solutions in a controller.

You also don't need trip insurance, but for a big trip in a pandemic era you might get it. I view this similarly - a personal choice based on risk tolerance.

i was without power for 33 hours during a hurricane and I was out of town. As soon as my Apex Heartbeat notified me, immediately I set up a big water auto change and made modifications to the system to deal with just being on basic life support. This was totally remote, out of town, all on my phone.

that’s when I truly knew I made the right decision on a controller.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

You don't need it. I have had a 385 gallon system with multiple tanks, basement sump and fish room...etc for years without one and have been very successful. I did bite the bullet on black friday though and get one with the plan on eventually adding a trident (which I just ordered yesterday ) . I never used to see the value in it to justify the cost, but after having one it is really nice if you end up really utilizing it to automate some stuff on yoru tank and to send you notifications. Mine has saved me once or twice already. I get an alert fairly quickly if my alk container runs dry as my pH will drop, or in the winter my heater wasn't able to keep up and was alerted right away so I could turn up my house temp to help. I even realized that 2 of the heaters I have that are 300 w were faulty and not yet really failed. One of them which I'd been using for years would kick on and off frequently when it should just be full on. so it was effectively only about a 150W heater. The other one I had was drawing either 300W or 150W totally randomly, so must have had a failing heating coil or loose connection internally.

I am adding the trident because I plan on going on vacation this fall and don't have anyone I can really rely on to maintain my tank. I'd prefer to check on it myself while out and just have someone I can call to help if something needs adjusted. Plus it will save me alot of time testing now, or catch alk swings early so I don't see issues with my coral before I know it.

I guess in short, the apex can be a very useful tool, and a fun toy too. It's up to you and your situation to justify the high cost though. I couldn't personally justify it untill I had some near misses on my large system which could have taken out quite alot of coral. I've been very happy with it myself and would certainly get it again. But if I had a smaller system I might do without.

 

[shblink]

Seneye and a smart power strip can do exactly the same, temp raises it sends me a notification. I open my app for the power strip and turn it off. Ph raises seneye sends me a notification, I open my app and switch off my doser

That's a good cheaper way to do it sure.
But the Apex is automated which makes it that much more of a fail-safe.
The Seneye and smart power strip are only as good as your cell signal and your home Wi-Fi. And also your ability to turn on/off switches right then and there. If you don't have signal or even your Apex disconnected from your Wi-Fi, it'll still do what it's programmed to do.

Also, as a chemist by trade, I don't trust a single all-in-one instrument to read all the different parameters they claim to read accurately. At least the Apex uses different probes for different measurements.

With the Apex, when I get notifications, the fail-safes have already done what they've needed to do before I even get the notification.

No one needs an Apex or other controller until they've lost livestock due to an issue that could've been prevented with fail-safes.

 

[stanleo]

Thank you all. Wow you have given me a lot to consider and this is exactly what I was looking for. I’m leaning towards getting one. But I have specific questions about some of your comments that I will ask later when I am in front of my computer.

 

[stanleo]

Ok I had my mind made up that I was going to get one tomorrow. A store in Charlotte sells them and I want to get it there not order it online unless the price is a lot more in the store. But I just read the reviews on BRS and I am freaked out again. lol. I know that reviews aren't that reliable, that more people write bad reviews than good reviews and fewer people write reviews when their expectations are met, but there a lot of one star reviews.

 

[stanleo]

I love my Apex. I work 14 to 16 hours a day for 6 months of the year. The ability to program, monitor and control my tank from anywhere is crucial to my success. Get Apex EL and you will be happy. Pair it with a WYZE camera and I am comfortable leaving my tank for days at a time.
I personally hate my Trident and would not recommend it. If you can, get the Alkatronic and Dosetronic if you are a stick head. If not, a couple of cheap BRS dosing pumps controlled by the Apex is perfect.
As far as the seneye goes, you have to pay 200 bucks to have it on WiFi unless you have a computer close by and I prefer to have as few electronics around saltwater as possible. You also have to change the tabs out every month.
The salinity probe is not perfect. Mine says my salt is 37. The actual number is wrong, but it is still correct. By looking at the number I can tell if I need to fill the ATO.
You are planning to be out of the country for a few weeks. I would say you actually need it unless you have a fellow hobbyist to take care of you reef and already knows most everything about your setup. With the Apex EL and a cheap WYZE camera you could show someone your tank setup and go over the basics and be good to go. Any issues that might arise while you are gone, you would be able to walk them through how to correct until you got back.

Thank you. Am I right in thinking that the Apex will replace my current temperature controller and ATO? If so that would be a big pro because I am in the process of getting my 110 freshwater ready for discus fish and those will be expensive and I would like to have a little piece of mind for that as well. I could use my old temp controller and ATO for that tank.

I don't know anyone that I could rely on to do the routine stuff while I am away. I know some locals on my facebook clubs that might do in a pinch if something goes wrong but just to monitor I do need something.

I don't think I want the Trident at this time but I might get one by the time I go to Europe. It would be great to have something that auto tests for when I am away but for now, I like my testing routine.

Would it be possible to hookup my mixing station pump to the Apex so I could automatically pump rodi water to ATO bucket while I am away from home?

I know that is a lot of questions. Thank you in advance.

 

[Philly Reefer]

Thank you. Am I right in thinking that the Apex will replace my current temperature controller and ATO? If so that would be a big pro because I am in the process of getting my 110 freshwater ready for discus fish and those will be expensive and I would like to have a little piece of mind for that as well. I could use my old temp controller and ATO for that tank.

I don't know anyone that I could rely on to do the routine stuff while I am away. I know some locals on my facebook clubs that might do in a pinch if something goes wrong but just to monitor I do need something.

I don't think I want the Trident at this time but I might get one by the time I go to Europe. It would be great to have something that auto tests for when I am away but for now, I like my testing routine.

Would it be possible to hookup my mixing station pump to the Apex so I could automatically pump rodi water to ATO bucket while I am away from home?

I know that is a lot of questions. Thank you in advance.

It can replace your temperature controller. But it cant replace your ATO out of the box. You will need to buy the ATK module for that.

I still use bayite temp controller to directly control my heater. Then I connect the bayite to the apex eb832. Double redundancy. I don't want the eb832 outlet to be burned out by turning on and off hundred times a day. BUT... Other people has done that and their eb832 still working perfectly