Do I quarantine pre-quarantined fish?

danielankeny · Jan 27, 2023

Hi friends, making rodi water, dry fitting plumbing, rearranging dry rock aquascape before mortaring…exciting times!

Still deciding on what to buy for my first fish but am planning to purchase from one of the online stores that pre-quarantines like biota, Dr Reef or TSM. I have 2 twenty gallon quarantine tanks, one for fish and 1 for inverts.

My question is: do people still quarantine fish from these sites? Or am I just increasing stress to the fish?

Thanks!

KrisReef · Jan 27, 2023

I don't know. I just bought some Koi for a friends pond and he wouldn't take them (a gift!) unless they were QT'd. I gave them an hour MinFin treatment yesterday, none of the fish looks suspect but you have to decide how you want to progress.

I just added a Naso from PetCo directly to my tank, it looked weak at the store so I purchased it to give it a better chance of living. If you are going to QT, or not, is something you need to decide upon. I would rather focus on fish husbandry than hospital tanks but how to achieve this I can't tell you. Things I do after years of doing them, I don't have a written down process, I pray and do them. Cleaning the tank is #1 and being prepared to deal with sick fish is a program a person has to do, or not.

I'm not really answering your question directly, I hope the pre qt'd fish arrive clean and alert without any need for medical intervention.

brandon429 · Jan 27, 2023

I think starting with those two particular option allows you to trust them and skip confirming it by repeat

they cost more due to those preps

what you need to concern over is not adding non fallowed items, breaking your tank's biosecurity, after paying for those fish.

brandon429 · Jan 27, 2023

this means you can't buy anything wet from a pet store that isn't fallowing every wet item minimum 90 days in the presence of no fish

you have to pass anything wet you buy at a pet store, through a separate running smaller saltwater tank or your purchase of pre qt fish is all for nothing.

those two are great sources, I've met in person Dr. Reef and chatted with him years online and routinely refer to his efforts in showing what cycle bac do in threads.

when you buy pre qt fish you're not getting 100% problem-free, guaranteed not one single cell of an invader present fish

you are buying from people dedicated to applying the best possible prevention science of the day, for you and for charge, saving you all that initial effort. sometimes breakthroughs of disease happen, and I'll bet biosecurity issues on the part of the keeper are a big unstated player in that issue

along with their initial attempts to arrest disease before it gets to you, you must pay to keep disease from hitching right back in with that new sprig of macro added to a refugium plumbed into the greater system, that's a biosecurity breach per Jay's article on it.

you are dedicating to things that maintain the protection that pre quarantined fish provide...complete and total fallow verified at your house for any wet item added from a pet store, wet items: corals, snails, a chunk of live rock, a strand of macro, a cleaner shrimp, wet = you fallow it or you undo all the efforts in one single mistake drop of water transferred.

what comes after buying the pre quarantined fish is the full hard part.

the benefit is: you apply the best fish retention science of the day to gain the highest retention rate.

QT fish worth $ is a big deal, they're providing a hard service. they provide the careful means to process hundreds of fish for the best disease prevention science of the day, if I was in the market for marine fish I would buy them from the sources listed.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 27, 2023

danielankeny said:
Hi friends, making rodi water, dry fitting plumbing, rearranging dry rock aquascape before mortaring…exciting times!

Still deciding on what to buy for my first fish but am planning to purchase from one of the online stores that pre-quarantines like biota, Dr Reef or TSM. I have 2 twenty gallon quarantine tanks, one for fish and 1 for inverts.

My question is: do people still quarantine fish from these sites? Or am I just increasing stress to the fish?

Thanks!

It is often I suggest, assume all fish especially those shipped and subject to temperature changes and stress to have inherited something and assume that is the case and quarantine, even if you break the 30 day cycle to two weeks and assure they truly are free of anything foreign. There is nothing worse than placing that fish you've awaited and to have to pull it out and quarantine for 30 days and leave your tank fishless for 6-8 weeks.

danielankeny · Jan 27, 2023

That makes total sense! Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

Big G · Jan 27, 2023

The only QT you can truly trust is your own.

brandon429 · Jan 27, 2023

I agree only if the quarantiner is absolutely up to date in practice, bad qt likely to harm fish doesn't make at-home qt safer.

not owning fish until someone reefs for a year or more, studying, reading disease forum trends the whole time? then self-quarantines: yes fully to that in my opinion. diy will always be the most trustworthy once we're able

heck so many folks spend time doubting ammonia control in a running reef tank I'd be amazed if a low surface area qt actually prone to ammonia issues could be effectively managed. they'd be guessing at crucial measurements the entire time.

for quarantine efforts at home, the masses are still using api and red sea nh4 test kits and those are the ones known to cause issue in large tank cycle posts... everything about quarantine is harder than actual reefing.

but if a market exists where people want to short change that effort and time, I would specifically trust Dr. Reef to sell me fish I can apply at the start to a fully stocked, but fallow prepped reef.

danielankeny · Jan 27, 2023

brandon429 said:
I agree only if the quarantiner is absolutely up to date in practice, bad qt likely to harm fish doesn't make at-home qt safer.

not owning fish until someone reefs for a year or more, studying, reading disease forum trends the whole time? then self-quarantines, yes fully to that in my opinion.

but if a market exists where people want to short change that effort and time, I would specifically trust Dr. Reef to sell me fish I can apply at the start to a fully stocked, but fallow prepped reef.

Thanks again!

glency · Jan 27, 2023

I don’t and I’ve been fine. But it only works until it doesn’t. I know the risks but I buy from reputable quarantine-ers. Again, I’m just telling myself that because I’m lazy. Maybe I’ll start. Or not.

Lionfish hunter · Jan 27, 2023

brandon429 said:
this means you can't buy anything wet from a pet store that isn't fallowing every wet item minimum 90 days in the presence of no fish

you have to pass anything wet you buy at a pet store, through a separate running smaller saltwater tank or your purchase of pre qt fish is all for nothing.

those two are great sources, I've met in person Dr. Reef and chatted with him years online and routinely refer to his efforts in showing what cycle bac do in threads.

when you buy pre qt fish you're not getting 100% problem-free, guaranteed not one single cell of an invader present fish

you are buying from people dedicated to applying the best possible prevention science of the day, for you and for charge, saving you all that initial effort. sometimes breakthroughs of disease happen, and I'll bet biosecurity issues on the part of the keeper are a big unstated player in that issue

along with their initial attempts to arrest disease before it gets to you, you must pay to keep disease from hitching right back in with that new sprig of macro added to a refugium plumbed into the greater system, that's a biosecurity breach per Jay's article on it.

you are dedicating to things that maintain the protection that pre quarantined fish provide...complete and total fallow verified at your house for any wet item added from a pet store, wet items: corals, snails, a chunk of live rock, a strand of macro, a cleaner shrimp, wet = you fallow it or you undo all the efforts in one single mistake drop of water transferred.

what comes after buying the pre quarantined fish is the full hard part.

the benefit is: you apply the best fish retention science of the day to gain the highest retention rate.

QT fish worth $ is a big deal, they're providing a hard service. they provide the careful means to process hundreds of fish for the best disease prevention science of the day, if I was in the market for marine fish I would buy them from the sources listed.

90 days? 52 is fine. And the 72 day fallow period advice comes from an ich study in cold water that is not relevant to reef temperatures.

Hermie · Jan 27, 2023

personally I don't quaratine from biota or ORA

brandon429 · Jan 27, 2023

Lionfish, it was to avoid taking shortcuts. If any degree of fallow is applied it’s better than nothing

ideally, fish simply go in last, months or even a couple years after stocking up the system with corals and balance animals is complete

it’s not hard to grow corals without fish, in fact I think it’s easier, we do it in nano reefs all the time. If the reef is fully stocked, then fallowed then fish added that sure saves a lot of incremental fallow preps along the way.

jasonrusso · Jan 27, 2023

brandon429 said:
this means you can't buy anything wet from a pet store that isn't fallowing every wet item minimum 90 days in the presence of no fish

you have to pass anything wet you buy at a pet store, through a separate running smaller saltwater tank or your purchase of pre qt fish is all for nothing.

those two are great sources, I've met in person Dr. Reef and chatted with him years online and routinely refer to his efforts in showing what cycle bac do in threads.

when you buy pre qt fish you're not getting 100% problem-free, guaranteed not one single cell of an invader present fish

you are buying from people dedicated to applying the best possible prevention science of the day, for you and for charge, saving you all that initial effort. sometimes breakthroughs of disease happen, and I'll bet biosecurity issues on the part of the keeper are a big unstated player in that issue

along with their initial attempts to arrest disease before it gets to you, you must pay to keep disease from hitching right back in with that new sprig of macro added to a refugium plumbed into the greater system, that's a biosecurity breach per Jay's article on it.

you are dedicating to things that maintain the protection that pre quarantined fish provide...complete and total fallow verified at your house for any wet item added from a pet store, wet items: corals, snails, a chunk of live rock, a strand of macro, a cleaner shrimp, wet = you fallow it or you undo all the efforts in one single mistake drop of water transferred.

what comes after buying the pre quarantined fish is the full hard part.

the benefit is: you apply the best fish retention science of the day to gain the highest retention rate.

QT fish worth $ is a big deal, they're providing a hard service. they provide the careful means to process hundreds of fish for the best disease prevention science of the day, if I was in the market for marine fish I would buy them from the sources listed.

And after you QT you still aren't guaranteed that one cell won't slip through

ReefEco · Jan 27, 2023

I've done both, QT'd fish directly into tank, and QT on top of already QT'd fish. It really depends. I've tried all the QT'd vendors, and had the best luck with TSM. On a recent order from another vendor, I paid the pre-QT premium and ordered 6 fish - one fish just wasn't included, with no advance warning, 2 arrived DOA, and one was blind, literally - apparently from ammonia in the shipping bag, per the vendor. I've never seen fish shipped with so little water. My beef (listen to ReefBeef!) is that really if you are paying the premium for pre-QT fish, they should really be EXTREMELY healthy. I've found that as pre-QT fish has become a thing, and vendors are getting more and more busy, I've found a fall off of quality from those vendors. This makes me think an additional QT on top of theirs is warranted, to be safe...

danielankeny · Jan 27, 2023

That makes sense

brandon429 · Jan 27, 2023

Jason, agreed breakthroughs are possible but you exclude what you can, focus on best practices and feed the fish high quality feed vs always just frozen food and maximize what you can in efforts

what does not address risk is adding unprepped fish from a pet store or buying qt fish and short changing fallow pass through efforts

ReeferMadness01 · Jan 27, 2023

brandon429 said:
this means you can't buy anything wet from a pet store that isn't fallowing every wet item minimum 90 days in the presence of no fish

you have to pass anything wet you buy at a pet store, through a separate running smaller saltwater tank or your purchase of pre qt fish is all for nothing.

those two are great sources, I've met in person Dr. Reef and chatted with him years online and routinely refer to his efforts in showing what cycle bac do in threads.

when you buy pre qt fish you're not getting 100% problem-free, guaranteed not one single cell of an invader present fish

you are buying from people dedicated to applying the best possible prevention science of the day, for you and for charge, saving you all that initial effort. sometimes breakthroughs of disease happen, and I'll bet biosecurity issues on the part of the keeper are a big unstated player in that issue

along with their initial attempts to arrest disease before it gets to you, you must pay to keep disease from hitching right back in with that new sprig of macro added to a refugium plumbed into the greater system, that's a biosecurity breach per Jay's article on it.

you are dedicating to things that maintain the protection that pre quarantined fish provide...complete and total fallow verified at your house for any wet item added from a pet store, wet items: corals, snails, a chunk of live rock, a strand of macro, a cleaner shrimp, wet = you fallow it or you undo all the efforts in one single mistake drop of water transferred.

what comes after buying the pre quarantined fish is the full hard part.

the benefit is: you apply the best fish retention science of the day to gain the highest retention rate.

QT fish worth $ is a big deal, they're providing a hard service. they provide the careful means to process hundreds of fish for the best disease prevention science of the day, if I was in the market for marine fish I would buy them from the sources listed.

Just fallowed and treated all my fish 6 months ago. Ordered 6 fish from him…4 died either in the bag or over night. Now all of my time and hard work wasted because my tank is now infected with ich all over again. I’ll just have them in a holding tank to make sure they don’t have velvet….I’m not destroying my tank again to get them out.

radiata · Jan 27, 2023

I put "quarantined" and/or "conditioned fish" in an observation tank for 5 weeks after receiving them. If they aren't from an either or quarantined/conditioned source, I put the fish through a 45-minute bath in Methylene blue, followed by a 45-minute bath in Formalin. The reagents come in simple to use pouches from Safety Stop (Blue Life USA). After the baths, they also go into an observation tank for 5 weeks after receiving them. Here's one source for the meds: