Do LED lights get old/go bad?

[Lylelovett]

Hi all,

I had bought some Kessil A360s used when I started my tank a couple years ago, now they have 4-ish years on them. Aside from something straight up breaking, do lights like these go bad? Does the light quality falter? If so, what do I look for or how do I test that?

There isn't anything specific that has happened, but it just occurred to me that this might be something I need to keep an eye on?

But I also don't want to fall under pressure from manufacturers/PR that I need to replace my lights.

Thanks!

 

[ReefReadyYouTube]

All lights will eventually go bad, you can always test the PAR from the light to see if it’s still has coral growing capability. That simple.

 

[jwshiver]

If it isn't broke don't fix it! As long as everything is doing well in your tank and you have no issues keep your money.

 

[oreo54]

LED's can fade but you would of had to check "PAR" new and "PAR" now..
With proper cooling it would be minimal in 4 years.
Bad fan... overheating.. then faster..

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve had a bunch of the Kessil 360s and have not found them to be all that enduring. I’m not particularly diligent about keeping them clean, but getting dust buildup off the internal heat sink is a good idea. Fan fails on these too, but there’s an easy replacement fix for that.

 

[hyprc]

Yes they go 'bad' slowly degrading in efficiency. Some much faster than you might think. If you google LED Degradation Curve you'll get an idea. I believe true and even near UV have particularly short lifespans in addition to being more expensive to manufacture. I'm only aware of lifespan related to runtime, not age of the diodes.

 

[jda]

Nobody has really done any spectral shift or output degradation testing. Although both will happen, it seems that most units mechanically fail, or people replace them with "newer" stuff before this is a huge concern.

 

[zoomonster]

Enjoy the Kessils while they last. Bought new 4/5 failed on me despite best efforts to keep them clean. First died right after 2 year warranty and the rest followed over a year or two. Almost all of them flickered at times. I don't think there is an LED aquarium light out there that will last anywhere near as long as the life of the LED's.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Much to the dismay of those reefers that have the "you can take my LED when you pry it out of my cold dead hands" mentality; LEDs do not function in a different space time where they are immune to the laws of physics and physical degradation that affects both the amount and spectrum of their output.

There is ample information out there for sure, here is one study:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/04/f34/lsrc_colorshift_apr2017.pdf

The reality is that from my limited amount of digging, a little over half of LED failures are from power supply problems. Also, an over-emphasis on form factor and not cooling has resulted in early failures of the LED, boards, or power supplies.

Like others have alluded to, if the light is working and your happy with it, then by all means keep using them. Over a couple years old, you can be sure there is some amount of photo-degradation and drop in overall luminosity. Does this matter however? Probably not.

 

[Jdwest]

My led n grow tent little different but at 7 years still full spectrum under light meter other day and I run them 16 hours a day my tank lights same manufacturer

 

[Hermie]

Yes absolutely LED's do fade over time, but how much depends on the quality of the LED/manufacturer. You can find studies about LED output over time by manufacturers on websites like mouser or digikey, and looking up specific LEDs. My general idea is that at about 1 year LEDs may be at 80% of their original power. That's a total ballpark number though.

one thing that can happen for example is the lens on the LED clouds up and reduces performance.

 

[oreo54]

Yes absolutely LED's do fade over time, but how much depends on the quality of the LED/manufacturer. You can find studies about LED output over time by manufacturers on websites like mouser or digikey, and looking up specific LEDs. My general idea is that at about 1 year LEDs may be at 80% of their original power. That's a total ballpark number though.

one thing that can happen for example is the lens on the LED clouds up and reduces performance.

Naah 1 yr and 80% would mean poorly designed lights or cheap diodes:

Lumen Maintenance and Reliability | Lumileds

Lumen maintenance is a measurement used to determine the performance of an LED light source over time. One of the key benefits of LED technology compared

www.lumileds.com

3650hr/s year on average is typical (10hr 365 days)

given their excellent long-term performance, white LEDs typically exhibit only a small drop in light output after 6,000 hours.

 

[honkit]

I have Radion Gen 3 Pros over my tank approaching the 5th year mark and SPS corals are still growing well with good colouration. Having said that, I will be looking to replace them with the new Gen 5 Blue Pros. My rule of thumb being to replace LEDs every 5 years or so.

 

[Hermie]

Naah 1 yr and 80% would mean poorly designed lights or cheap diodes:

Lumen Maintenance and Reliability | Lumileds

Lumen maintenance is a measurement used to determine the performance of an LED light source over time. One of the key benefits of LED technology compared

www.lumileds.com

3650hr/s year on average is typical (10hr 365 days)

Well you have a point however not all diodes are created equal, both different spectrums and manuf. quality. Blue and Red for example use different physics to produce their emissions.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/05/f51/ssl_ast-multi-source-led_2018.pdf

 

[oreo54]

Those were PAR 38 bulbs run in high humidity and heat. As far as I 'm concerned. ...PSS poor designs and extreme environments though the humidity is a bit of a concern.
I've seen the moisture ingress studies on chips before.
So you got my ideal vs your worst case..

Tunable whites were 95% at over 12000 hours.

 

[Auquanut]

I have been running LED black box fixtures that I bought used about 2 1/2 years ago. Everything seems to be fine. Lighting looks good and corals are flourishing. From what I've read in this thread so far, can we deduce that we're likely to see complete diode failure of individual lights before a significant reduction in overall performance as an indicator of needing to replace the fixtures, or should overall "dimming" be more of a concern? This is something that has been weighing on my mind for awhile. Not trying to derail the thread, just thought it might be relevant.

 

[StatelineReefer]

I have been running LED black box fixtures that I bought used about 2 1/2 years ago. Everything seems to be fine. Lighting looks good and corals are flourishing. From what I've read in this thread so far, can we deduce that we're likely to see complete diode failure of individual lights before a significant reduction in overall performance as an indicator of needing to replace the fixtures, or should overall "dimming" be more of a concern? This is something that has been weighing on my mind for awhile. Not trying to derail the thread, just thought it might be relevant.

In CBBs the main point of failure seems to be the plastic caps over the actual diode, not the diodes themselves.

The 3w 'dome style' on 2010-2014 style CBBs has a soft acrylic cap. Over time, heat and moisture will cause these to yellow and cloud. Failed LEDs will cause these caps to look browned out. Even if the LED is still actually functioning, the cap will brown from the excess heat... I just had to replace a set of diodes on my GalaxyHydro CBBs because of this.

But then again, I knew what I was in for, I bought mine originally in 2009-2010... when LEDs were a fledgling art. The LEDs in my box lasted 10ish years. uncapped diodes show minimal dimming, and only one had truly 'burnt out'. but they had lost spectrum quality and luminosity, and were beginning to run 12 to 28 Fahrenheit degrees hotter than original.

LEDs don't fail like T5's or metal halides, They fail more like a car battery, short notice before complete degradation.

 

[GlassMunky]

I’m still using my original Gen2 Radions that I got right when they came out that at this point are close to if not over 10 years old...
they function exactly as they did the day I bought them and my corals and anemones still love them.

 

[StatelineReefer]

I’m still using my original Gen2 Radions that I got right when they came out that at this point are close to if not over 10 years old...
they function exactly as they did the day I bought them and my corals and anemones still love them.

Original Gen2's did it right, surface mount LEDs, super efficient heat sink, and underdriven 5w leds... longer life, better output. They also used a good high quality power supply.

 

[SyracuseMatt]

My Ecotech Gen 2 pros still going strong. I only run them at 25%. I have three gen 2 pros and 4 t-5s over a standard 180 gallon tank. They could lose a whole lot of intensity before I'd need to worry. There are reasons I might change someday (including being intrigued by Ecotech's abandoning 'puck' style lighting) but, loss of intensity isn't one of them. Without a par meter, it is tough to set your lighting intensity in the first place and it is probably impossible to know if you're losing par over time. I certainly wouldn't replace them because of the loss of par over time without actually measuring it.

Matt