Do you need white lights?

[oreo54]

Cool, is that their app that shows this or is it a third party measurement? I ask because I believe some of the companies claim to have uv, but actually do not. This makes me skeptical of any measurements they show on a graph unless it's been third party verified.

If the led producer that they source the leds from have that graph as a lab verified measurement of the leds they are selling then I would fully believe the measurements to be near accurate.

Either way it's great to start seeing actual spectrum measurements for white leds, when I was coming up with a layout I had a heck of a time with choosing the best white option due to the lack of availability spectrum measurements.
In my head, if the white were truly full spectrum like a mh,t5, or even incandescent then they would eliminate the need for green or red leds in the fixture. But if they were not then it made the need of a little red and green leds make more sense.

There are plenty of hugh cri white leds that are " enhanced" in red blue and cyan. Which is why they are high cri.

Cheaper to use cheap whites since most run at like 10% or so anyways.

Low cri whites have a higher " lumen" rating as well... i.e more efficient and would measure higher par.

Sad thing is the blue/yellow phosphor common leds are color dulling.
T5's ect are really more rgb ( that is the common phosphor pack) w/ some amber frim the mercury emissions.

Point is its slightly complicated but easy to see why the techs are different.

Then there are the violet pump leds w rgb phosphors added...

 

[Shooter6]

There are plenty of hugh cri white leds that are " enhanced" in red blue and cyan. Which is why they are high cri.

Cheaper to use cheap whites since most run at like 10% or so anyways.

Low cri whites have a higher " lumen" rating as well... i.e more efficient and would measure higher par.

Sad thing is the blue/yellow phosphor common leds are color dulling.
T5's ect are really more rgb ( that is the common phosphor pack) w/ some amber frim the mercury emissions.

Point is its slightly complicated but easy to see why the techs are different.

Then there are the violet pump leds w rgb phosphors added...

These are the details I feel are being left out of ALL the led light test. I've yet to see anyone go into details on the real spectrum being produced by the whites in any light, and which white led are able to produce the best full spectrum for coral growth.
It makes me wonder if the popular led lights used really need the green and red channels, or if they really are wasted for marketing purposes only.

 

[oreo54]

These are the details I feel are being left out of ALL the led light test. I've yet to see anyone go into details on the real spectrum being produced by the whites in any light, and which white led are able to produce the best full spectrum for coral growth.
It makes me wonder if the popular led lights used really need the green and red channels, or if they really are wasted for marketing purposes only.

No adding red and green to yellow and blue (white led) makes it full spectrum or at least fuller.
Only green is questionable since there are substitutes that are more efficient and/or wider spread in that range.
Lime, mint and cyan for example.

Yes sometimes people "expect" things like green thus a chicken/egg marketing thing..

for people that like more color "a green" does enhance that.
Something regarding "looks"
Phosphorwhite

 

[Shooter6]

No adding red and green to yellow and blue (white led) makes it full spectrum or at least fuller.
Only green is questionable since there are substitutes that are more efficient and/or wider spread in that range.
Lime, mint and cyan for example.

Yes sometimes people "expect" things like green thus a chicken/egg marketing thing..

for people that like more color "a green" does enhance that.
Something regarding "looks"
Phosphorwhite

If you look at the white led spectrum charts posted in comparison to the popular t5 lights used or even the mh the green and red spectrums are as well represented if not more so with the white leds.

Therefore if the charts are any where near accurate, theres plenty of the red,green,yellow ect spectrum being provided given enough white leds are being used to get an even coverage.

 

[oreo54]

If you look at the white led spectrum charts posted in comparison to the popular t5 lights used or even the mh the green and red spectrums are as well represented if not more so with the white leds.

Therefore if the charts are any where near accurate, theres plenty of the red,green,yellow ect spectrum being provided given enough white leds are being used to get an even coverage.

Yea, I was considering more " sunlike" and appealing.

Other than warm white the high k diodes used are short in the blue/cyan range and deep red.

When one wants to emulate t5's halides sunlight the quantity per nm needs to be somewhat considered .

Point regarding adding red and green has a definite aesthetic usefulness compared to poor "daylight quality" whites even with a fuller spectrum than say some heavy blue mercury based lights.

In the freshwater world simple rgb arrays work well and are quite appealing though arguably full spectrum- ish ( visually) they are lacking in daylight "full spectrum" qualities.

You are right that " simple" white leds are generally more full spectrum in the visible range than other light sources but it does little good if they are unappealing. Sooo they add ref and green. Both of which are photosynthetically active so there is no real downside here.

Early led reef lights used just royal blue and high k whites (10000 or better). Worked ok but visual appeal was questionable.
Using lower k were yellow looking and unappealling.

Think the ugly green look of old flourescents. Full spectrum-ish but ugly.

 

[Shooter6]

Yea, I was considering more " sunlike" and appealing.

Other than warm white the high k diodes used are short in the blue/cyan range and deep red.

When one wants to emulate t5's halides sunlight the quantity per nm needs to be somewhat considered .

Point regarding adding red and green has a definite aesthetic usefulness compared to poor "daylight quality" whites even with a fuller spectrum than say some heavy blue mercury based lights.

In the freshwater world simple rgb arrays work well and are quite appealing though arguably full spectrum- ish ( visually) they are lacking in daylight "full spectrum" qualities.

You are right that " simple" white leds are generally more full spectrum in the visible range than other light sources but it does little good if they are unappealing. Sooo they add ref and green. Both of which are photosynthetically active so there is no real downside here.

Early led reef lights used just royal blue and high k whites (10000 or better). Worked ok but visual appeal was questionable.
Using lower k were yellow looking and unappealling.

Think the ugly green look of old flourescents. Full spectrum-ish but ugly.

Interesting points, the thing is most people turn the reds and green down to a point I don't believe they are offering any photosynthesis and are for visual appeal only. I'd bet a mix of 65k-10k whites, violets royal blue,windex blue and a few cyan would cover all the needs of coral and visual appeal without wasted channels by looking at the white led spectrums posted.

 

[Brymac1]

Interesting points, the thing is most people turn the reds and green down to a point I don't believe they are offering any photosynthesis and are for visual appeal only. I'd bet a mix of 65k-10k whites, violets royal blue,windex blue and a few cyan would cover all the needs of coral and visual appeal without wasted channels by looking at the white led spectrums posted.

I agree that most people use red/green for visual appeal and color rendering only. I think this is a mistake to some degree. I know some people are "afraid" of red light as too much can cause photoinhibition. However, I believe that even at 100%, most reef lights do not provide the intensity required to cause photoinhibition or bleaching. For example, running my reds at 100% on my kessils only yields a PAR value of 35 micromoles. Seeing that red light is very photosynthetically efficient, I believe that bumping up the reds in most fixtures can be beneficial to some degree.

 

[oreo54]

High cri led.