Do You Quarantine Algae?

[AlgaeBarn]

I think this is just fear of the unknown.

If you looked around in your tank with the aid of a microscope for a little while and then look at your macroalgae under the microscope for a little while you'd be a lot less worried about the macroalgae.

Very true.

I’m one of the people that QT’s anything wet that is goes in the tank. I started with dry rock, dry sand, dip all corals, and QT all fish and inverts. I even QT’ed my seed coraline alage for 76 days. For the first year the only thing I found in my tank that I didn’t internally put there was pineapple sponges.

When I purchased my ‘so called’ clean Chaeto, I QT’ed it for 16 days to avoid introducing any free swimming ich, but after 2-3 months of adding it I started to find apitasia. I’m still battling them, but that’s another story.

Personally, I would QT any macro alage long enough to give any nastys enough time to get big enough to see, unless someone has a protocol to kill them with a dip or other method. Lesson learned for me!

I'm curious, did you purchase this from us? I highly doubt the aiptasia was from our stock. I have a hard time picturing aiptasia laying dormant for 70 to 100 days... but if your interested, we can send some captive bred peppermint shrimp your way.

+1 for interest.

I also assumed "clean" macro algae came with the unwavering assurance that it was indeed clean, free of pests/parasites, etc. This assumption was supported by the inflated price tag. I figured that's what people were paying for. I read the disclaimer and immediately was disappointed... I totally understand the, "you should QT everything" argument but if that's the case, why the big price tag?

To respond directly, the disclaimer is legal stuff. Try some chaeto from us, look through it. If you aren't happy, let us know. I can almost guarantee that we spend more time per ounce of chaeto than any other vendor. We treat our chaeto through numerous chemical and biological processes and for packing it we dewater it, we weigh it out, we rinse it, and pack it. We have a brand to protect.

 

[Forsaken77]

Very true.



I'm curious, did you purchase this from us? I highly doubt the aiptasia was from our stock. I have a hard time picturing aiptasia laying dormant for 70 to 100 days... but if your interested, we can send some captive bred peppermint shrimp your way.



To respond directly, the disclaimer is legal stuff. Try some chaeto from us, look through it. If you aren't happy, let us know. I can almost guarantee that we spend more time per ounce of chaeto than any other vendor. We treat our chaeto through numerous chemical and biological processes and for packing it we dewater it, we weigh it out, we rinse it, and pack it. We have a brand to protect.

Would you mind explaining how you "quarantine and sterilize" the algae? How it is housed and what it is grown with (fish, inverts, ect...)?

I looked on your site, and while it says you take the extra step, it doesn't say what those steps are. Is it just visually looking through it?

 

[AlgaeBarn]

I visited your site and see there's a disclaimer stating the chaeto might not be clean and users should quarantine. What sort of pests should users look out for and what is your feedback experience from customers who do see pests on your chaeto (i.e. what pests)?

Interested buyer.

Would you mind explaining how you "quarantine and sterilize" the algae? How it is housed and what it is grown with (fish, inverts, ect...)?

I looked on your site, and while it says you take the extra step, it doesn't say what those steps are. Is it just visually looking through it?

We definitely do not "sterilize" the macroalgae in anyway. I can't go into too much depth as our method is not patented and if we released our SOPs, they would simply be giving everyone a step by step process on how to replicate our product.

For incoming batches of macroalgae, we visually inspect it and toss anything that is not worth treating. We treat anything that passed the first stage with 5 different chemical compounds. Each compound is utilized to target a specific set of parasites/pests/hitchhikers. We rinse between every stage, and we do 5 final rinses with virgin saltwater to minimize any chemical transfer. If we notice anything that remains, we try to treat with biological control methods (such as peppermint shrimp or snails) that have been quarantined without fish.

After quarantine and inspection, Macroalgae that is for sale is housed in a system without inverts, fish, or anything else. Just macroalgae, saltwater, nutrients, and lighting. To deal with nutrient demands, we supplement with synthetic fertilizers and some waste pod water. We don't use fish water.

After all of this, we visually inspect the macroalgae before packaging it and shipping .


Note, I made a few edits for clarity and grammatical purposes.

 

[Forsaken77]

We definitely do not "sterilize" the macroalgae in anyway. I can't go into too much depth as our method is not patented and if we released our SOPs, they would simply be giving everyone a step by step process on how to replicate our product.

For incoming batches of macroalgae, we visually inspect it and toss anything that is not worth treating. We treat anything that passed the first stage with 5 different chemical compounds designed to target multiple in different stages, we rinse between every stage, and we do a 5 final rinses with virgin saltwater to minimize any chemical transfer. If we notice anything that remains, we try to treat with biological control methods (such as peppermint shrimp or snails) that have been quarantined without fish.

After quarantine and inspection, Macroalgae that is for sale is housed in a system without inverts, fish, or anything else. Just macroalgae, saltwater, nutrients, and lighting. To deal with nutrient demands, we supplement with synthetic fertilizers and some waste pod water. We don't use fish water.

After all of this, we visually inspect the macroalgae before packaging it and shipping .


Note, I made a few edits for clarity and grammatical purposes.

Thank you for shedding some much needed light on the process. Fwiw, I have UV on the brain and meant clean/treat instead of "sterilize."

Your response makes me feel more confident in making the purchase and I appreciate you taking the time to address that.

I know you can't guarantee for legal reasons, but do you suggest a method and length of quarantine time as a precaution that won't kill the algae (any additives that should be maintained?)? I've never QT'd algae before and want to make sure I don't kill it. I was looking into the clean Ulva for its great nutrient export and the ability to feed it to my herbivorous fish.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I was interested in seeing if anyone QT's newly purchased algae being there could be a lot of possible pests in it. I was looking to buy some Clean Ulva from Algae Barn and they have this disclaimer after the description:

"PLEASE NOTE: We go to great lengths to treat, quarantine and remove any unwanted parasites, hitchhikers, and other organisms from our Macro Algae. However, we do not guarantee that this item is completely and totally free of anything unwanted. This is because sometimes spores, eggs, etc can remain viable but not visible, despite our strict quarantine procedure. As a result, we always recommend that you properly quarantine anything new that you are adding to your tank."

This makes it sound as though the algae isn't grown, alone, in a clean enviornment, imo. So do you QT your algae purchases, and how do you go about it?

Isolate macroalgae, no light 2-3 days check, repeat to 6-9 days. Wor k s for me. Then use

 

[Forsaken77]

Isolate macroalgae, no light 2-3 days check, repeat to 6-9 days. Wor k s for me. Then use

Why no light? And you don't use any light for up to 12 days? Or is that only the first 3 days?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Why no light? And you don't use any light for up to 12 days? Or is that only the first 3 days?

Habit, just in case other microalgae hitch hike. Longer the better to kill microalgae .

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Habit, just in case other microalgae hitch hike. Longer the better to kill microalgae .

A rather interesting method. @Subsea had an interesting post talking about using hydrogen peroxide to kill microalgae.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Thank you for shedding some much needed light on the process. Fwiw, I have UV on the brain and meant clean/treat instead of "sterilize."

Your response makes me feel more confident in making the purchase and I appreciate you taking the time to address that.

I know you can't guarantee for legal reasons, but do you suggest a method and length of quarantine time as a precaution that won't kill the algae (any additives that should be maintained?)? I've never QT'd algae before and want to make sure I don't kill it. I was looking into the clean Ulva for its great nutrient export and the ability to feed it to my herbivorous fish.

Isolate in a tank. Use either aeration or a powerhead with a foam prefilter to circulate the water. Be sure not to have too much flow as it shouldn't be violent mixing. I would use light to ensure the algae receives enough energy and to ensure nothing else grows, but I understand @Jomama comment and concern. You can use synthetic nutrients, but its rather tricky to get the right ratio. If you plan on hitting the 72-76 day mark suggested by humblefish, you'll need to get the algae growing because it will not last that long without nutrients. I've had negative experiences with freshwater dips, but it's something I want to try again. You could follow the TTM.

 

[Skep18]

To respond directly, the disclaimer is legal stuff. Try some chaeto from us, look through it. If you aren't happy, let us know. I can almost guarantee that we spend more time per ounce of chaeto than any other vendor. We treat our chaeto through numerous chemical and biological processes and for packing it we dewater it, we weigh it out, we rinse it, and pack it. We have a brand to protect.

Thank you for the very good response I completely understand the legal stuff. I think you guys get it too but in case it's unclear, for those of us who are looking for total control, these details you've provided make the world of difference.

 

[Subsea]

Hydrogen peroxide is unique in its ability to oxidize/sterilize. As a coral dip, it kills all algae and sensitive invertebrate including pods, micro stars and bristle worms. I have found that the slime coat of corals protect them from the oxidizing effect of hydrogen peroxide. The same slime protects Aptasia from this treatment.
With respect to removing micro algae from macro algae surface, I experimented with using weaker solutions of h202 to kill micro algae and not macro algae. Results were not conclusive. What I did find was that some macro resisted this take over. As a case study, I used two red macros: Gracilaria Hayi and Halymenia dilatata (Dragons Tongue is the Pacific cultivar of what people call Dragons Breath). Initially, when growing these in a tumble culture, I noted differrent micro algae growing on some of desirable macro algae. This prompted me to experiment with what would kill micro but not macro algae. Not being a scientist with a laboratory, but as a farmer that observes Nature I have concluded that I can’t kill one without harming the other. Instead, just as in my garden, I encourage the desirable by weeding out the undesirable. Weeding takes on differrent paths depending on circumstances, but mostly, I thin out undesirables allowing unimpeded growth of desirables.

Most of my study was focused on Halymenia dilitata. As noted, not all of the Dragons Tongue showed infestation with micro algae. As I thinned out and removed micro algae infested macro algae, I noted that the new springs showed no infestation but that old growth was prone to micro algae infestation. While it was tedious with much old crop used to mulch tomatoes, I have gone back to my old school roots and hand weeded my garden of undesirables.

 

[Jeff_H]

@Forsaken77
@Skep18
@AlgaeBarn

My apologies for the slow response, I was on a business trip with very little free time.

Regarding where I purchased the Chaeto - Yes it was from AlgaeBarn. I called them twice prior to the three different orders I've placed with them in the past year (PODs, Chaeto, Ulva, Gracilaria). The purpose of my call was mainly to understand their process in regards to any shared water with fish systems since I know they resale fish as well. They confirmed what is mentioned in the prior detailed response, so I felt comfortable the risk of introducing ick (or worse) was much lower with their products vs. the local fish shops where I can clearly see they share water with fish systems. FWIW: At the time, I wasn't concerned with aiptasia due to my lack of experience with them and not understanding how fast it can spread or bad an outbreak could get.

Looking at my original post, I didn't word my QT period properly. I only QT'ed the algae for 16 days since I was concerned the algae would die if I had it isolated for weeks or months. Just in case you're wondering, I chose 16 days since the tomont stage of ich is unlikely to attach to algae and the free swimming stages will die in this time frame without a fish host. This is the minimum recommendation QT period for inverts like anemones since they don't have a hard surface for tomont to attach. After the 16 days, I introduced the algae to the main display without a closely inspecting it and within 2-3 months time, I start to notice aiptasia.

To be fair, I can't confirm the aiptasia came from the AlgaeBarn products. Knowing what I know about aiptasia now, it could have been hiding under the rock work prior to introducing the macroalgae. The reason I strongly suspect it did come in on the chaeto is because it is very dense and provides a good hiding place, my limited QT period, my lack of detailed observation before introducing it to my main tank, and my current observation of aiptasia hosting in/on Chaeto in my refugium. Plus, everything else in my system, minus the fish and anemones, went through a much longer observation period (76 days) so I'm 99% positive I would have seen any aiptasia it if it was on a hermit crab shell or frag plug.

As a general comment from my limited experience in this hobby, I would say noting is 100% and each individual needs to take the necessary steps to ensure their desired outcomes... It's good to trust, but verify when it comes to the QT process.

If I could have a redo:
1. I would still purchase the MacroAlgae from AlgaeBarn. (Nothing is 100% but I would gladly pay again for the additional steps they take to get you as close as possible to a pest-free product.)
2. I would QT it much longer since I now know how to keep it alive in a cycled bare QT system for weeks or months, plus I have a good idea how long it takes for aiptasia to grow large enough to be able to see them if you're paying attention.
3. I would 'closely' inspect it prior to introducing it to the main display.

@AlgaeBarn - I might take you up on the peppermint shrimp offer. My Berghia Nudibranchs seem to 'not' be reproducing and I think one of my fish or shrimp has been picking them off since there has been a slow decline in sightings after dark and an increase in aiptasia again (very frustrating). I'm also considering a filefish or Silver Scat to assist with the battle.

 

[Forsaken77]

@Forsaken77
@Skep18
@AlgaeBarn

My apologies for the slow response, I was on a business trip with very little free time.

Regarding where I purchased the Chaeto - Yes it was from AlgaeBarn. I called them twice prior to the three different orders I've placed with them in the past year (PODs, Chaeto, Ulva, Gracilaria). The purpose of my call was mainly to understand their process in regards to any shared water with fish systems since I know they resale fish as well. They confirmed what is mentioned in the prior detailed response, so I felt comfortable the risk of introducing ick (or worse) was much lower with their products vs. the local fish shops where I can clearly see they share water with fish systems. FWIW: At the time, I wasn't concerned with aiptasia due to my lack of experience with them and not understanding how fast it can spread or bad an outbreak could get.

Looking at my original post, I didn't word my QT period properly. I only QT'ed the algae for 16 days since I was concerned the algae would die if I had it isolated for weeks or months. Just in case you're wondering, I chose 16 days since the tomont stage of ich is unlikely to attach to algae and the free swimming stages will die in this time frame without a fish host. This is the minimum recommendation QT period for inverts like anemones since they don't have a hard surface for tomont to attach. After the 16 days, I introduced the algae to the main display without a closely inspecting it and within 2-3 months time, I start to notice aiptasia.

To be fair, I can't confirm the aiptasia came from the AlgaeBarn products. Knowing what I know about aiptasia now, it could have been hiding under the rock work prior to introducing the macroalgae. The reason I strongly suspect it did come in on the chaeto is because it is very dense and provides a good hiding place, my limited QT period, my lack of detailed observation before introducing it to my main tank, and my current observation of aiptasia hosting in/on Chaeto in my refugium. Plus, everything else in my system, minus the fish and anemones, went through a much longer observation period (76 days) so I'm 99% positive I would have seen any aiptasia it if it was on a hermit crab shell or frag plug.

As a general comment from my limited experience in this hobby, I would say noting is 100% and each individual needs to take the necessary steps to ensure their desired outcomes... It's good to trust, but verify when it comes to the QT process.

If I could have a redo:
1. I would still purchase the MacroAlgae from AlgaeBarn. (Nothing is 100% but I would gladly pay again for the additional steps they take to get you as close as possible to a pest-free product.)
2. I would QT it much longer since I now know how to keep it alive in a cycled bare QT system for weeks or months, plus I have a good idea how long it takes for aiptasia to grow large enough to be able to see them if you're paying attention.
3. I would 'closely' inspect it prior to introducing it to the main display.

@AlgaeBarn - I might take you up on the peppermint shrimp offer. My Berghia Nudibranchs seem to 'not' be reproducing and I think one of my fish or shrimp has been picking them off since there has been a slow decline in sightings after dark and an increase in aiptasia again (very frustrating). I'm also considering a filefish or Silver Scat to assist with the battle.

Thanks for the detailed response. I agree, the odds of having a pest or hitchhiker is much smaller, but the possibility is still there.

I soooo don't want to have to QT frigin ALGAE! ;Dead. I definitely don't want to maintain and tie up a tank for a few months as well.

How long does it usually take to notice nuisance anemones?

 

[Skep18]

Thanks for the detailed response. I agree, the odds of having a pest or hitchhiker is much smaller, but the possibility is still there.

I soooo don't want to have to QT frigin ALGAE! ;Dead. I definitely don't want to maintain and tie up a tank for a few months as well.

How long does it usually take to notice nuisance anemones?

Definitely thanks for the detailed response @Jeff_H

All this sounds just makes me want to forget the refugium altogether. lol... Idk even how to "inspect" for aiptasia. And if you do find it, I assume everything in that QT goes right into the trash can...

 

[Forsaken77]

Definitely thanks for the detailed response @Jeff_H

All this sounds just makes me want to forget the refugium altogether. lol... Idk even how to "inspect" for aiptasia. And if you do find it, I assume everything in that QT goes right into the trash can...

I know, right lol. I was thinking more of a reactor to keep things more contained and have the output go back to the 50 micron socks to catch anything.

I was getting the algae for a 180 FOWLR build I'm in the process of and each of the 2 return pumps has a UV coming off of it, which would eradicate pests or severely limit them. But I don't plan on running the UV's 24hrs a day.

The Ulva, being better than chaeto at nutrient uptake, would be a great help in a FOWLR tank. But there's no way I'm QT'ing freakin algae for 76 days!!! I'll probably do 3 weeks at most with some freshwater dips. The likelihood of hitchhikers is small, though present, so I may just end up rolling the dice on this one and hoping for the best.

 

[Skep18]

[...] I may just end up rolling the dice on this one and hoping for the best.

;Wideyed I will say a prayer to the reefs gods for you!

 

[Jeff_H]

@Forsaken77 - It's hard to say what the right time frame is before you declare it pest free. I say that because I think it is partially due to how much food the aiptasia receives so it will grow while the chaeto is in QT. I have a 10-gallon observation/hospital tank that was infected with aiptasia (no surprise) from the main tank, so I used it as an experiment. I ghost feed this tank to keep enough film algae alive to feed a trochus snail I leave in there full time. This tank also has a health pod population which is what I think the aiptasia was mainly feeding on. I was surprised how many tiny aiptasia popped up (10-20) over about a month. None of them were very large so I don't know how or why they spread this quickly with limited food or threats from me attempting to kill them. After about a month, I wanted to see if I could rid the tank of them without a complete teardown. So far, I have been unsuccessful after removing the rock, sand and using a razor blade to scrap the remaining ones off the glass. I now find one about every week and carefully remove it with a razor blade so I don't leave anything to grow back. They have definitely slowed down, so maybe it will work... Who knows!

That said - I have not tried this, but I think a month would be a good starting point. After a month I would inspect the chaeto while it's in the tank undisturbed so the aiptasia (if any) will be fully extended and easier to spot. If the tank has enough light to keep the chaeto alive, the aiptasia should be darker in color so it should be easier to spot in the green mass.

So at this point, the OCD is running a little high. For me, I now think it might be better to do what you can to prevent them from getting in the tank without going crazy, and select the right CuC to keep them under control if/when they get past the screening. Personally, I don't think I will ever get them out of my display tank now unless I did a full reset. I plan to add natural predator(s) to keep them under the rocks and out of sight.

@Skep18 - I hear you about dropping the refug, but I love running the Triton Method and don't think I would ever go back to not have the refugium. It is way easier for me to keep the tank stable across the board with the limited time I have.

Good luck to both of you!

 

[AlgaeBarn]

@Forsaken77
@Skep18
@AlgaeBarn

My apologies for the slow response, I was on a business trip with very little free time.

Regarding where I purchased the Chaeto - Yes it was from AlgaeBarn. I called them twice prior to the three different orders I've placed with them in the past year (PODs, Chaeto, Ulva, Gracilaria). The purpose of my call was mainly to understand their process in regards to any shared water with fish systems since I know they resale fish as well. They confirmed what is mentioned in the prior detailed response, so I felt comfortable the risk of introducing ick (or worse) was much lower with their products vs. the local fish shops where I can clearly see they share water with fish systems. FWIW: At the time, I wasn't concerned with aiptasia due to my lack of experience with them and not understanding how fast it can spread or bad an outbreak could get.

Looking at my original post, I didn't word my QT period properly. I only QT'ed the algae for 16 days since I was concerned the algae would die if I had it isolated for weeks or months. Just in case you're wondering, I chose 16 days since the tomont stage of ich is unlikely to attach to algae and the free swimming stages will die in this time frame without a fish host. This is the minimum recommendation QT period for inverts like anemones since they don't have a hard surface for tomont to attach. After the 16 days, I introduced the algae to the main display without a closely inspecting it and within 2-3 months time, I start to notice aiptasia.

To be fair, I can't confirm the aiptasia came from the AlgaeBarn products. Knowing what I know about aiptasia now, it could have been hiding under the rock work prior to introducing the macroalgae. The reason I strongly suspect it did come in on the chaeto is because it is very dense and provides a good hiding place, my limited QT period, my lack of detailed observation before introducing it to my main tank, and my current observation of aiptasia hosting in/on Chaeto in my refugium. Plus, everything else in my system, minus the fish and anemones, went through a much longer observation period (76 days) so I'm 99% positive I would have seen any aiptasia it if it was on a hermit crab shell or frag plug.

As a general comment from my limited experience in this hobby, I would say noting is 100% and each individual needs to take the necessary steps to ensure their desired outcomes... It's good to trust, but verify when it comes to the QT process.

If I could have a redo:
1. I would still purchase the MacroAlgae from AlgaeBarn. (Nothing is 100% but I would gladly pay again for the additional steps they take to get you as close as possible to a pest-free product.)
2. I would QT it much longer since I now know how to keep it alive in a cycled bare QT system for weeks or months, plus I have a good idea how long it takes for aiptasia to grow large enough to be able to see them if you're paying attention.
3. I would 'closely' inspect it prior to introducing it to the main display.

@AlgaeBarn - I might take you up on the peppermint shrimp offer. My Berghia Nudibranchs seem to 'not' be reproducing and I think one of my fish or shrimp has been picking them off since there has been a slow decline in sightings after dark and an increase in aiptasia again (very frustrating). I'm also considering a filefish or Silver Scat to assist with the battle.

Jeff,

I think 16 days is likely sufficient for ich due to the free swimming stage not having a host.

IF the chaeto came with aiptasia, I would think you would have seen it in the 16 day QT time. Do you immediately drain the water after your done QTing? If the chaeto was tumbling at all, I think spores would have been released and you would have had aiptasia all over your QT tank. I do understand your concern and thought process.

Somewhat unrelated, but I have a customer I am working with that already had aiptasia in his tank and in his fuge (I have before photos as I was helping him optimize his refugium setup and pointed this out to him). We sent him some sea lettuce and in about 7 days, he had aiptasia growing on it (our sea lettuce is spotless and very easy to inspect). Aiptasia grows VERY fast, so 2-3 months seems too slow to have been from us.

We appreciate your prior orders and while I'm not convinced that the aiptasia is from us, we will gladly send you some peppermint shrimp (message me your name, shipping info, etc). If you want to pay for shipping, we can send you a biota captive bred aiptasia eating filefish (You'll need to run QT on it). FYI, I think they are on the smaller side.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

I know, right lol. I was thinking more of a reactor to keep things more contained and have the output go back to the 50 micron socks to catch anything.

I was getting the algae for a 180 FOWLR build I'm in the process of and each of the 2 return pumps has a UV coming off of it, which would eradicate pests or severely limit them. But I don't plan on running the UV's 24hrs a day.

The Ulva, being better than chaeto at nutrient uptake, would be a great help in a FOWLR tank. But there's no way I'm QT'ing freakin algae for 76 days!!! I'll probably do 3 weeks at most with some freshwater dips. The likelihood of hitchhikers is small, though present, so I may just end up rolling the dice on this one and hoping for the best.

Freshwater dips won't kill aiptasia. When we were developing our QT and treatment methods, I left some aiptasia in freshwater for 30 minutes. It appeared to be all slimely and I was sure the bugger was done for. I did a water change to saltwater and the little guy was rather healthy in a few days.

For QT, go ahead and feed the qt tank a slight amount of food. Have the macroalgae moving to try and ensure that any pest will have an opportunity to spread, and watch. The benefits of macroalgae far outweigh the potential downfalls. Macroalgae makes keeping a tank significantly easier.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Definitely thanks for the detailed response @Jeff_H

All this sounds just makes me want to forget the refugium altogether. lol... Idk even how to "inspect" for aiptasia. And if you do find it, I assume everything in that QT goes right into the trash can...

When looking for aiptasia, Jeff_h has it right with the stagnant water. Let it sit there, have a light over the tank. You can let it sit for a day. If your looking closely, you should see it. When you take it out of the water, they shrivel up and are much harder to find.