Do you Really Need a refugium?

[Paul B]

I o not have a refugium or sump but I think of my whole tank as a refugium as there are so many things growing in there that a fuge would be a waste of time. But I do have DIY algae scrubber which hangs over the tank. I love algae. Just not on my corals.

 

[duffstanton]

Regarding the maintenance of a refugium has anyone had issues with GHA growing on cheato? Is there a solution to this problem.
Other than this issue I find my refugium to be an easy and productive part of my reef tank.

 

[billysprout]

Only thing I can add to this amazing thread is that Vibrant kills macroalgae as well as nuisance algae. So... beware!

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I really like having a refugium. Here are some reasons:
• Tons of Amphipods and Copepods, which I need for my Mandarin Dragonet and Ruby Red Dragonet.
• I feed heavily and the fuge absorbs most of the Nitrates.
• I can control nitrates much better and to dose Potassium Nitrate to maintain Nitrate levels.
• I still have algae in my tank, but it's mainly Caulerpa macro algae. This provides a place for the pods to populate to feed my Dragonettes.
• Chaeto growth exploded with I got a Kessil H380. Before that Chaeto would barely grow.
• I run Core 7, which is designed to work with a refugium
• It's essentially maintenance free, except for removing Chaeto every 10 days.
• Profit - I take out about 1/3 of the Chaeto from my 10 gallon refugium every 10 days. This is about 3-4 gallons of drained chaeto. Then I sell it to my local fish store for $25-40, depending on the exact amount. That's about $900-1,500 per year, which pays for most of the food and testing reagents.

I hope this helps.

So i got fed up tonight with my refugium when the ghl return flow meter alarmed. Down to 150 gph, normally 220 to 250.

A bunch of sea lettuce got into the return section. This is the downside to fiji sump, all water goes through the refugium an flows into to the return section.

I have pretty low flow so not been an issue....

Until....

Chaeto, ulva, red ****, all was growing great. See here:

Well in last couple weeks--- it has crashed. No changes to the tank so to speak of...

Phosphates and nitrates increased, and i wasnt sure why, then figured out only sea lettuce and a little calupra was alive in the refugium.

I cleaned that dead crap out. Phosphates and nitrates back into the normal to a little high range.


Left sime sea lettuce.

Then tonight ghl flow alarm...

I was ticked...

Second time the wet dry vacuum came out this week...

ALL MACRO is GONE now....

I even sprayed hydrogen peroxide in the dry refugium and return section.... LOL, i was cursing like a sailor...

Well i've calmed down....

Ive always had a refugium. Always grew well. Think they help. But this one has got me going....

The design of the sump make cheato the only real option, if i try this again....


NEED SUGGESTIONS ??

Nitrates are at 28ppm (previously below 10 before macro crash)

Phosphates 0.08ppm.

Heavy fish load as stocking for 200 gallon build going up soon.

Not a spec of nuisance algae in the display:

I bought a soft ball size of chaeto tonight..

Given all of macro just crashed and burned, except sea lettuce, and thats not really practical to grow solo given the sump design--ANY SUGGESTIONS??

i am dosing chaeto gro and have been for months. Recommended amount on bottle out of a doser....

Taking an ICP sample in the morning after the water clears...

 

[Tim Olson]

Regarding the maintenance of a refugium has anyone had issues with GHA growing on cheato? Is there a solution to this problem.
Other than this issue I find my refugium to be an easy and productive part of my reef tank.

The GHA only grows on the walls of tank/refugium, not on the Chaeto itself. If it's too much I'll pull it off the glass. I like having it in the fuge, though, since the Copepods love it. The Arthropods multiply like crazy in the Chaeto.

 

[Bruce60]

I am using HDPE tubs. with glass lids for sump and fuge, made by Custom Aquariums. The light sits right on top of the glass and there is no light spillover into the adjacent tubs. Plus the HDPE is MUCH easier to keep clean.

The fuge is the container on the right, next to the ATO water container. It is fed by a dedicated pump from the return chamber and flows back into the return through the hose connection the R2R towel is hanging on. All I do is remove macroalgae and add phytoplankton for the pods. Once every few months I add a few snails to replace any losses.

 

[Tim Olson]

So i got fed up tonight with my refugium when the ghl return flow meter alarmed. Down to 150 gph, normally 220 to 250.

A bunch of sea lettuce got into the return section. This is the downside to fiji sump, all water goes through the refugium an flows into to the return section.

I have pretty low flow so not been an issue....

Until....

Chaeto, ulva, red ****, all was growing great. See here:

Well in last couple weeks--- it has crashed. No changes to the tank so to speak of...

Phosphates and nitrates increased, and i wasnt sure why, then figured out only sea lettuce and a little calupra was alive in the refugium.

I cleaned that dead crap out. Phosphates and nitrates back into the normal to a little high range.


Left sime sea lettuce.

Then tonight ghl flow alarm...

I was ticked...

Second time the wet dry vacuum came out this week...

ALL MACRO is GONE now....

I even sprayed hydrogen peroxide in the dry refugium and return section.... LOL, i was cursing like a sailor...

Well i've calmed down....

Ive always had a refugium. Always grew well. Think they help. But this one has got me going....

The design of the sump make cheato the only real option, if i try this again....


NEED SUGGESTIONS ??

Nitrates are at 28ppm (previously below 10 before macro crash)

Phosphates 0.08ppm.

Heavy fish load as stocking for 200 gallon build going up soon.

Not a spec of nuisance algae in the display:

I bought a soft ball size of chaeto tonight..

Given all of macro just crashed and burned, except sea lettuce, and thats not really practical to grow solo given the sump design--ANY SUGGESTIONS??

i am dosing chaeto gro and have been for months. Recommended amount on bottle out of a doser....

Taking an ICP sample in the morning after the water clears...

I had the same thing happen about 6 months ago and Nitrates and Phosphates spiked. It crashed since I was dosing too much Phosphate-E. I've quit using Phosphate-E since then and had to go back to GFO to control Phosphates.

I fixed it by pulling out all the dying Chaeto, which was almost all of it and restarted with a chunk of Chaeto. Since then it grows extremely fast. I also need to turn the Chaeto over every 2 days to keep it from dying and rotting at the bottom.

Also, to keep the Chaeto from getting into the return area, I made a 1/4" mesh "filter" that inserts into the return line that leaves the fuge. I made it from plastic screen that people put in their house gutters to keep the leaves out.

 

[jmichaelh7]

So i got fed up tonight with my refugium when the ghl return flow meter alarmed. Down to 150 gph, normally 220 to 250.

A bunch of sea lettuce got into the return section. This is the downside to fiji sump, all water goes through the refugium an flows into to the return section.

I have pretty low flow so not been an issue....

Until....

Chaeto, ulva, red ****, all was growing great. See here:

Well in last couple weeks--- it has crashed. No changes to the tank so to speak of...

Phosphates and nitrates increased, and i wasnt sure why, then figured out only sea lettuce and a little calupra was alive in the refugium.

I cleaned that dead crap out. Phosphates and nitrates back into the normal to a little high range.


Left sime sea lettuce.

Then tonight ghl flow alarm...

I was ticked...

Second time the wet dry vacuum came out this week...

ALL MACRO is GONE now....

I even sprayed hydrogen peroxide in the dry refugium and return section.... LOL, i was cursing like a sailor...

Well i've calmed down....

Ive always had a refugium. Always grew well. Think they help. But this one has got me going....

The design of the sump make cheato the only real option, if i try this again....


NEED SUGGESTIONS ??

Nitrates are at 28ppm (previously below 10 before macro crash)

Phosphates 0.08ppm.

Heavy fish load as stocking for 200 gallon build going up soon.

Not a spec of nuisance algae in the display:

I bought a soft ball size of chaeto tonight..

Given all of macro just crashed and burned, except sea lettuce, and thats not really practical to grow solo given the sump design--ANY SUGGESTIONS??

i am dosing chaeto gro and have been for months. Recommended amount on bottle out of a doser....

Taking an ICP sample in the morning after the water clears...

I am using HDPE tubs. with glass lids for sump and fuge, made by Custom Aquariums. The light sits right on top of the glass and there is no light spillover into the adjacent tubs. Plus the HDPE is MUCH easier to keep clean.

The fuge is the container on the right, next to the ATO water container. It is fed by a dedicated pump from the return chamber and flows back into the return through the hose connection the R2R towel is hanging on. All I do is remove macroalgae and add phytoplankton for the pods. Once every few months I add a few snails to replace any losses.

How often are you guys testing, to successfully run a refugium?

my last build It was running well until I bottomed out in phosphates. So does this mean daily testing for you guys running refugiums

 

[Tim Olson]

How often are you guys testing, to successfully run a refugium?

my last build It was running well until I bottomed out in phosphates. So does this mean daily testing for you guys running refugiums

I test Nitrates, Phosphates & Alkalinity every day or two. Although, it's not for the health of the refugium, it's to maintain Nitrate levels of about 0.2-0.5 ppm. I dose Potassium Nitrate to bring the Nitrates up from zero.

What really helped my refugium the most was adding tons of light with the H380. Also there needs to be sufficient amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates in the system.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I had the same thing happen about 6 months ago and Nitrates and Phosphates spiked. It crashed since I was dosing too much Phosphate-E. I've quit using Phosphate-E since then and had to go back to GFO to control Phosphates.

I fixed it by pulling out all the dying Chaeto, which was almost all of it and restarted with a chunk of Chaeto. Since then it grows extremely fast. I also need to turn the Chaeto over every 2 days to keep it from dying and rotting at the bottom.

Also, to keep the Chaeto from getting into the return area, I made a 1/4" mesh "filter" that inserts into the return line that leaves the fuge. I made it from plastic screen that people put in their house gutters to keep the leaves out.

Okay, good to know. I have just never had such issues with a refugium and macro. I had one refugium for 10 years and it was basically the easiest thing i have ever grown with a cheap home depot light. I don't remember any issues.

Of course then no body tested or tweaked things like we do today! lol.

I'll try the new small ball of chaeto, and just keep it small, assuming it will grow. That way hopefully i don't have turn it every couple of day. I have this system setup with minimal baby sitting, and a lot of automation, and don't want baby sit it. I don't think i need much in terms of nutrient removal from the chaeto, other methods are carrying the load, but ideally i want a spot for algae to grow other than my display.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

How often are you guys testing, to successfully run a refugium?

my last build It was running well until I bottomed out in phosphates. So does this mean daily testing for you guys running refugiums

Years ago i basically never tested anything, and my refugium grew well with a cheap fluorescent bulb. I only started testing alk when that became a thing to do and i was having hard time with acros.

Now i have a GHL, every test kit you can think of, and apparently a harder time with the refugium...lol... murphy's law i suppose.

I think i am going with a small amount of macro to try to minimize issues with it. Also if it dies, easy to see, and less impact on the system. Perhaps i just let it grow too much for too long, the macros crowded each other, and that caused the downward spiral.

I would say i will test less often in the future because that was successful in the past (less tinkering = more success)--and don't think its necessary at all to test often or at all when it comes nitrates and phosphates and the tank looks good--but i like to test often now just because i can and because then i can put a number on nutrients and compare that to my visual analysis of the tank's health; the testing is just part of the hobby for me now, now that we can i do just for my own knowledge--not because it's necessary to keep a nice tank.

 

[t5Nitro]

So i got fed up tonight with my refugium when the ghl return flow meter alarmed. Down to 150 gph, normally 220 to 250.

A bunch of sea lettuce got into the return section. This is the downside to fiji sump, all water goes through the refugium an flows into to the return section.

I have pretty low flow so not been an issue....

Until....

Chaeto, ulva, red ****, all was growing great. See here:

Well in last couple weeks--- it has crashed. No changes to the tank so to speak of...

Phosphates and nitrates increased, and i wasnt sure why, then figured out only sea lettuce and a little calupra was alive in the refugium.

I cleaned that dead crap out. Phosphates and nitrates back into the normal to a little high range.


Left sime sea lettuce.

Then tonight ghl flow alarm...

I was ticked...

Second time the wet dry vacuum came out this week...

ALL MACRO is GONE now....

I even sprayed hydrogen peroxide in the dry refugium and return section.... LOL, i was cursing like a sailor...

Well i've calmed down....

Ive always had a refugium. Always grew well. Think they help. But this one has got me going....

The design of the sump make cheato the only real option, if i try this again....


NEED SUGGESTIONS ??

Nitrates are at 28ppm (previously below 10 before macro crash)

Phosphates 0.08ppm.

Heavy fish load as stocking for 200 gallon build going up soon.

Not a spec of nuisance algae in the display:

I bought a soft ball size of chaeto tonight..

Given all of macro just crashed and burned, except sea lettuce, and thats not really practical to grow solo given the sump design--ANY SUGGESTIONS??

i am dosing chaeto gro and have been for months. Recommended amount on bottle out of a doser....

Taking an ICP sample in the morning after the water clears...

Tell me what you're using for your cabinet organizers. We have the same tank. My stuff is all over the living room floor, lol. Also, you have way more fish load than I do right now and my nutrients are similar to yours, first time ever with measurable nitrates (20!) and phosphates up to 0.08 as well. I'm so happy with these numbers. You should keep it that way.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Tell me what you're using for your cabinet organizers. We have the same tank. My stuff is all over the living room floor, lol. Also, you have way more fish load than I do right now and my nutrients are similar to yours, first time ever with measurable nitrates (20!) and phosphates up to 0.08 as well. I'm so happy with these numbers. You should keep it that way.

The 50 gallon build thread is here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/innovative-marine-50-gallon-ext-lagoon.833458/

I just tried to maximize usable space and cram gadgets into the cabinet. I fit everything, but access can be a chore. That's the downside.

If you didn't have as many gadgets, the design of the cabinet i used would be easier to access and ideal. When designing, just keep in mind maintenance in the future. For example, the UV behind the tank has to facing the correct way or i would not be able to maintenance. Another example, the control panel in the front, hinges down to access the power bricks, etc..

I may just take your suggestion and not end up with a refugium at all, but giving it one last go, just growing much less to hopefully keep from being a chore or crashing.

 

[t5Nitro]

What are you using for paneling inside? I feel like I just turn to velcroing power bricks to the sides. The outside also needs some sort of electronics cabinet on the end of the tank so I can get all the stuff outside onto the end nicely.

 

[rhostam]

I can't answer if you need one. But I can say that since I've started using my refugium chamber, I have spent significantly less time cleaning the glass of my aquarium or seen any trace of algae in the DT.

 

[bnord]

love looking at the tank as a system, and each part of the system has a role to play - For me and the chaeto chamber is the turtle grass beed between the shore and the reef. Balances the nutrients, serves as the pod nursery, sits over some mud (that I do not change often enough)

it is easy to tune with light cycle and intensity and as other have pointed out can help keep pH up at night.

take a hand full out one a week and use it on my plant bed.

Never had spill over algae growth for some reason, maybe because its where the snails and urchin go when they get to be too big.

longest living peppermint shrimp I have ever had are down there too

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

What are you using for paneling inside? I feel like I just turn to velcroing power bricks to the sides. The outside also needs some sort of electronics cabinet on the end of the tank so I can get all the stuff outside onto the end nicely.

Easier for you to look at build thread, its all in there... i don't have any equipment on the outside of the stand, but if i did, i probably have it match the stand and use another IM stand.

 

[KingHippoTang]

Don't this this is correct but I run a red sea 300 skimmer and a carbon media reacter, 24 watt UV and I have a bunch of rock I got from a guy who broke down a 18 year old system with a huge bag of bright well bio balls,cubes,plate and I have just a peice of dragons breath macro in the sump.
I dose 40ml phosphate once a day (with a doser) but this is my problem my alk is at 10-12 my rodi is new use tropic Marin salt
I don't dose alk I dose 17 ml of calcium every other day and 40 mil of mag once a day I figure I won't chase alk numbers but why are my corals not using the alk in the water?

 

[Billys_reef]

There are many ways to do this but I dont have a fuge on my tank. I feed heaviliy and arbon dosing keeps my nitrates phosphates low.

 

[jmichaelh7]

There are many ways to do this but I dont have a fuge on my tank. I feed heaviliy and arbon dosing keeps my nitrates phosphates low.

Do you run carbon 24/7?