Does agitating dinos release toxins

[Steve1500]

I have a dino problem and was wondering if stirring up/agitating the dinos on the sand bed or scraping it off the glass releases any toxins. My corals are not doing well and I want to rule this in or out as part of my problem.

Also, for LPS is alkalinity at 8.3-8.7 ok?

I have low nutrients, so dinos are expected.

Alk: 8.3-8.5 (Hanna)
Ca: 420 (API)
Nitrates: 3 ppm (nyos)
Phosphates: 0 ppm (Hanna)
SG: 1.026

 

[sfin52]

They can release toxins just by being alive it is one of those survival strategy. I strongly recommend that you run granulated activated carbon in the tank.

 

[Fragwil]

+1 on running carbon
Once you are, I’ve found manual removal to be very effective at eliminating the Dino’s and helping your corals through it. Use a turkey baster or something similar, and as much as you possibly can keep blowing your corals off as well as your rocks and sand.

 

[saltyhog]

Definitely run carbon and change it regularly!

Get that phosphate up (nitrate is fine). If you're running GFO, stop.

 

[mcarroll]

Phosphates: 0 ppm (Hanna)

This is what's provoking the dino's into blooming AND probably what's p-ing off your corals.

Resolve this ASAP with a phosphate fertilizer....Seachem, Brightwell, DIY, etc.

Target 0.10 ppm on your Hanna.

Within a day or few the blooming activity should subside if it hasn't gotten too bad.

Nitrates
3 ppm for your nitrates is very low (what's the +/- accuracy rate on the test kit?) so do not let nitrates slip down to zero in the process.

Prevent this by dosing some nitrate fertilizer as needed....same commercial or DIY sources as above.

Target 5-10 ppm on your Nitrate test kit.

NOTE: You'll want to re-test an hour or so after your first nutrient dose as that one (or even the first few) will often be consumed almost instantly leaving the tank no better off. You need a residual of phosphates in the water of ≥ 0.10 ppm until the dino's stop blooming.

More info here:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
Try to read through the first post and at least some of the links there before you dive into the rest of the comments.

 

[Steve1500]

Granulated carbon? I have some Fluval carbon in these mesh bags (says premium research grade), can I just drop one or two in my sump? My sump does not have room for a GFO or any kind of carbon device. Pls advise what granulated carbon is and how to use it, Thanks!!!

On dosing, every time I dose N and P, that is when the corals take a turn for the worse. I am using Science Company Sodium Nitrate and Green Leaf aquarium Mono Potassium Phosphate.

 

[sfin52]

Yes that will work

 

[mcarroll]

On dosing, every time I dose N and P, that is when the corals take a turn for the worse. I am using Science Company Sodium Nitrate and Green Leaf aquarium Mono Potassium Phosphate.

If you're doing it right, there's no reason corals would do worse by having access to nutrients they need.

Perhaps consider more conventional nutrient sources?

Also, maybe more details about what happened, your test levels, etc, would help someone pinpoint what was going wrong in the past attempts?

Were you generally following the advice from the dino thread linked above?

 

[Steve1500]

Yes, i’ve gone to more conventional nutrient sources like overfeeding. I also took cheato out of the sump. I will be adding two more fish from my QT in about two weeks, so I hope that helps.

I also plan on getting a UV light from BRS.

Finally I added two bags of carbon to my sump today. Hopefully that will help with the Dino toxins.

This is a learning experience!

 

[mcarroll]

Yes, i’ve gone to more conventional nutrient sources like overfeeding.

Overfeeding is as likely to compound the problem or cause new ones as it is to help.

I meant potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate from the likes of Seachem or Brightwell. Something packaged with proper concentration levels and dosing instructions.

I also took cheato out of the sump.

Probably a good move.

Chaeto and more food are probably good in the long run, but are not good in the short run. So feed the fish "enough" (don't withhold food either) and wait until the tank is more stable before you reintroduce macro algae.

 

[Steve1500]

Thanks. I will try this plan. Just have to order the N and P you mention above. I don’t know if my current N and P are contaminated but for a few bucks, better safe than sorry.

 

[14 foot reef]

This is what's provoking the dino's into blooming AND probably what's p-ing off your corals.

Resolve this ASAP with a phosphate fertilizer....Seachem, Brightwell, DIY, etc.

Target 0.10 ppm on your Hanna.

Within a day or few the blooming activity should subside if it hasn't gotten too bad.

Nitrates
3 ppm for your nitrates is very low (what's the +/- accuracy rate on the test kit?) so do not let nitrates slip down to zero in the process.

Prevent this by dosing some nitrate fertilizer as needed....same commercial or DIY sources as above.

Target 5-10 ppm on your Nitrate test kit.

NOTE: You'll want to re-test an hour or so after your first nutrient dose as that one (or even the first few) will often be consumed almost instantly leaving the tank no better off. You need a residual of phosphates in the water of ≥ 0.10 ppm until the dino's stop blooming.

More info here:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
Try to read through the first post and at least some of the links there before you dive into the rest of the comments.

can you forward a link to the Brightweel product? everything I google sends me to phosphate removal, not a phosphate addition

Thanks

 

[dwest]

Yes, i’ve gone to more conventional nutrient sources like overfeeding. I also took cheato out of the sump. I will be adding two more fish from my QT in about two weeks, so I hope that helps.

I also plan on getting a UV light from BRS.

Finally I added two bags of carbon to my sump today. Hopefully that will help with the Dino toxins.

This is a learning experience!

If it were me I would run the carbon in a high flow area in the sump. You want more flow than normal through your GAC for a while. And replace it weekly for now. As mcarroll suggested, go to the thread. You’ll find lots of good information there. Good luck!

 

[saltyhog]

can you forward a link to the Brightweel product? everything I google sends me to phosphate removal, not a phosphate addition

Thanks

https://www.seachem.com/flourish-phosporus.php

Not the Brightwell product but works just as well.

 

[saltyhog]

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/neophos.php

Brightwell product

 

[14 foot reef]

thank you

 

[Rich Klein]

Definitely run carbon and change it regularly!

Get that phosphate up (nitrate is fine). If you're running GFO, stop.

+1 - you need to grow algae to out-compete the Dino. Dino is the best survivor when there is not enough nutrient to support other fauna.

 

[ncaldwell]

Have you tried a blackout? When mine were at their worst I stirred everything up, turned off the lights for 72 hours and changed my socks often. Got rid of a lot of them so I could tackle the stragglers easier