Does anyone else use Tropic Marin All For Reef?

[LARedstickreefer]

I have a bottle and don’t use it as im confused as to how much to use. With 2 part I was able to independently get alk and ca to the right place but with All For Reef I don’t understand how to accomplish that.

so if you start with a tank that has CA & alk disproportionately off how would you raise Alk more than the Ca or visa versa?

Just use your two part to bring alk or calcium up to your target.

Start slow with the AFR, and test your alk daily to see if you need to increase AFR.

AFR takes some time to break down into alkalinity, so you won’t see the result of increasing AFR immediately.

 

[GabeM]

I have a bottle and don’t use it as im confused as to how much to use. With 2 part I was able to independently get alk and ca to the right place but with All For Reef I don’t understand how to accomplish that.

so if you start with a tank that has CA & alk disproportionately off how would you raise Alk more than the Ca or visa versa?

I am not a chemist but my understanding is that Alk and CA part of all for reef is actually https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/carb...RRa1vG15eHN4xid1zMRgei_573TWP_ua3xxnIDKXgxC34

Basically you dose for alkalinity and your Calcium will automatically adjust to as much as the water will handle.

 

[phatduckk]

I am not a chemist but my understanding is that Alk and CA part of all for reef is actually https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/carb...RRa1vG15eHN4xid1zMRgei_573TWP_ua3xxnIDKXgxC34

Basically you dose for alkalinity and your Calcium will automatically adjust to as much as the water will handle.

interesting. Thanks!

 

[rushbattle]

The salt is more expensive but dang it if my sps coral colors didn't start exploding when I started using it a month or so ago. Sooooo I'm using it exclusively at this point.

Shhh, don’t tell’m Rev! Hard enough to get already!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have a bottle and don’t use it as im confused as to how much to use. With 2 part I was able to independently get alk and ca to the right place but with All For Reef I don’t understand how to accomplish that.

so if you start with a tank that has CA & alk disproportionately off how would you raise Alk more than the Ca or visa versa?

you cannot. You will have to make corrections with other additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

interesting. Thanks!

no, not true at all. Whoever made that specific claim is not a good source of chemical information.

like kalkwasser, it adds an exact fixed amount of calcium and alkalinity. Like adding a two part in exactly equal proportion always. It has nothing to do with what the water can hold.

 

[phatduckk]

no, not true at all. Whoever made that specific claim is not a good source of chemical information.

like kalkwasser, it adds an exact fixed amount of calcium and alkalinity. Like adding a two part in exactly equal proportion always. It has nothing to do with what the water can hold.

so it sounds like your starting point has to be such that proportional addition “keeps you there”. Implies that I’d your salt doesn’t start at your desired place you have to get it right another way.

even more interesting. Thanks for the primer

 

[LARedstickreefer]

so it sounds like your starting point has to be such that proportional addition “keeps you there”. Implies that I’d your salt doesn’t start at your desired place you have to get it right another way.

even more interesting. Thanks for the primer

Yes, you will need to adjust calcium and dkh with two part. AFR should supply the bulk of it in a ratio that can’t be adjusted by itself.

For example: I noticed, over time, that my calcium was getting on the “low” side with just AFR as it’s source. I used some part B to bring it up to 440ppm or so. I couldnt just increase my AFR dose because my dkh was where I wanted it.

 

[GabeM]

no, not true at all. Whoever made that specific claim is not a good source of chemical information.

like kalkwasser, it adds an exact fixed amount of calcium and alkalinity. Like adding a two part in exactly equal proportion always. It has nothing to do with what the water can hold.

Could you expand further on Tropic Marin's claims then and why they are incorrect?

 

[GabeM]

no, not true at all. Whoever made that specific claim is not a good source of chemical information.

like kalkwasser, it adds an exact fixed amount of calcium and alkalinity. Like adding a two part in exactly equal proportion always. It has nothing to do with what the water can hold.

specifically the following "Traditionally two or more solutions are required but Carbo-Calcium relies on biological processes to release calcium and carbonate from a single liquid without the worry of precipitation or oxygen depletion."

 

[Val Shebeko]

You gived it an F?

F is for following

 

[Res_Ipsa]

I’m about to make the switch from BRS 2-part to the DIY all-for-reef formula. I’m aiming to mix up 5L of the solution and use it through one of my DOS heads on my 60g nuvo. Like others have said, you’ll still want to have individual elements on hand for specific additions but the balanced single solution is attractive to me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could you expand further on Tropic Marin's claims then and why they are incorrect?

i know very well exactly how the product works and we have discussed it with Lou Ekus a number of times. It’s a fine product.

That said, I’m fairly certain Tropic Marin did not claim that the “calcium will adjust to whatever the water will handle”.

as I clearly stated, it is exactly like dosing kalkwasser or a two part or in exactly equal proportions to maintain alkalinity, and the amount of calcium added is just a fixed amount, having nothing to do with what the water can handle.

 

[GabeM]

i know very well exactly how the product works and we have discussed it with Lou Ekus a number of times. It’s a fine product.

That said, I’m fairly certain Tropic Marin did not claim that the “calcium will adjust to whatever the water will handle”.

as I clearly stated, it is exactly like dosing kalkwasser or a two part or in exactly equal proportions to maintain alkalinity, and the amount of calcium added is just a fixed amount, having nothing to do with what the water can handle.

I must be misunderstanding what they are saying then - thanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

specifically the following "Traditionally two or more solutions are required but Carbo-Calcium relies on biological processes to release calcium and carbonate from a single liquid without the worry of precipitation or oxygen depletion."

I didn’t dispute that, although the oxygen part is a claim that may be open to interpretation since oxygen is consumed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I must be misunderstanding what they are saying then - thanks.

this is the process:

the product adds a molecule called calcium formate.
The calcium is instantly released to the water and is available to corals.

When bacteria or other organisms consume the organic molecule formate and metabolize it, alkalinity as bicarbonate is released and it becomes useful to corals and other organisms. That takes some time and uses some oxygen, and is generally not likely to be dependent on much else except the number of organisms that can consume it.

 

[br88dy]

When bacteria or other organisms consume the organic molecule formate and metabolize it, alkalinity as bicarbonate is released and it becomes useful to corals and other organisms. That takes some time and uses some oxygen, and is generally not likely to be dependent on much else except the number of organisms that can consume it.

I thought Lou said that the alkalinity "bypasses" the water column and goes straight to the coral. Now I'm not sure what he meant by that.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I thought Lou said that the alkalinity "bypasses" the water column and goes straight to the coral. Now I'm not sure what he meant by that.

I don’t know, but I can tell you that AFR doesn’t instantly change the dkh of your water. It takes time (hours) for it to break down into alkalinity. I like it this way, more stability.

It’s not hard to use. Start off with something like a few mL per day and check to see if you are keeping up with your tanks demands for alkalinity. I have about 34g of water in my system and I started off with 4mL per day. That was sufficient. Now I’m up to about 7.5mL per day, maintaining a dkh of around 7.2-7.4. If it creeps up to 8, I’ll adjust my doser to dose less, if it drops below 7, I’ll adjust it back up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I thought Lou said that the alkalinity "bypasses" the water column and goes straight to the coral. Now I'm not sure what he meant by that.

In a real reef tank, I can’t imagine that is the process that actually happens. With a coral by itself, perhaps zooxanthellae can metabolize the formate. But in a reef tank with vastly more bacteria than zoox, I think that bacterial process will dominate.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

In a real reef tank, I can’t imagine that is the process that actually happens. With a coral by itself, perhaps zooxanthellae can metabolize the formate. But in a reef tank with vastly more bacteria than zoox, I think that bacterial process will dominate.

I believe it even has some carbon in it to spur bacteria growth for this purpose.