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threebuoys

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why some reefers have zoas whose polyps refuse to open and GSP that refuses to extend?

I have read many threads searching for this answer.

Of course the first response anyone has is "Well, what are your water parameters?"

After the OP responds then the next series of posts go something like this:

Your nitrates are too low,
Your nitrates are too high,
Your phosphates are too low,
Your phosphates are too high,
Your <substitute your favorite parameter> is too low,
Your <substitute your favorite parameter> is too high,
Your PAR is too high,
Your PAR is too low,
etc.

Not once have I found a response that said " I had that problem too and this is how I solved it!"

Responses always seem to be someone trying to be helpful by comparing the OP's parameters to commonly accepted guidelines.

Well, it's my turn to try to find an answer. I'm not going to report all my parameters right now because I am within all of the ranges that consensus says is correct for pH, Salinity, nitrates, phosphates, calcium, Alkalinity and temperature.

I'm really not trying to be arrogant, I would just like to hear someone else say he had this problem and solved it by doing......... Maybe he did change one or more of the parameters for his tank. That would be good to know. I just hate to create another thread where a lot of speculation is offered, but actual individual experiences are never found.

In my case, the Zoas I have were purchased via mail order. All have been in the tank for two months. All opened when I first received them. Over the course of a week each colony opened less and less frequently and by the end of the first month, all remained closed. I dipped them in Coral RX and Iodine before adding them to the tank. I inspected them with a magnifying glass for hitchhikers/pests and have seen none.Other coral frags acquired at the same time seem to be OK except that any with red coloration look more like rust or red clay than a vibrant red now. Types include acans, favias, chalices, cyphastria and ricordia.

The tank is 125 gallons, It has been running with fish for 10 months. The corals were added 2 months ago. I have feed phytoplankton or reef roids once a week for the past month. I have not fish nipping at the corals. Algae is under control. I have a sump with filter socks, skimmer, ATO. Salt mix is reef crystals. I use RO/DI water, and change 25% monthly. I have two flow pumps pointed towards the center, one on each side of the tank.


Please, if you have solved this problem before, let me know.
 
My expierience is...
Some zoas seem to be a little more finicky than others.
For example:
I have some Whammin Watermelons that started of slow but have taken off since.
Some Bloodsuckers that I got at the same time have always been a bit stunted. Still alive, but not thriving.
Some types also have a tendency to melt away for no apparent reason.
 
I’m with you on everything you mentioned. I’ve had this problem a few times with zoa and Most recently with an island with gsp on it. Opened when I got it, struggled and a receded a little, then stayed closed for 2 years. No exaggeration. During that time, slowly, I tried raising nutrients lowering nutrients, high light, low light, high flow, low flow and pretty much everything in between. Nothing worked. Then one day it opened and started growing like the weed it is. It was in high light at that moment. I moved it back to the bottom on the sand and it’s continued growing ever since.

so I solved the mystery but I have no idea how.
 
Some types of mine started disappearing slowly under blue lights, AI Prime HDs set to 20% white. Added a lot more white and they stopped disappearing.Had them under 14k K Metal Halide in my old tank and they grew everywhere. Initially I thought there was too much flow, but moving to an area of reduced flow did nothing for me.
 
why some reefers have zoas whose polyps refuse to open and GSP that refuses to extend?

I have read many threads searching for this answer.

Of course the first response anyone has is "Well, what are your water parameters?"

After the OP responds then the next series of posts go something like this:

Your nitrates are too low,
Your nitrates are too high,
Your phosphates are too low,
Your phosphates are too high,
Your <substitute your favorite parameter> is too low,
Your <substitute your favorite parameter> is too high,
Your PAR is too high,
Your PAR is too low,
etc.

Not once have I found a response that said " I had that problem too and this is how I solved it!"

Responses always seem to be someone trying to be helpful by comparing the OP's parameters to commonly accepted guidelines.

Well, it's my turn to try to find an answer. I'm not going to report all my parameters right now because I am within all of the ranges that consensus says is correct for pH, Salinity, nitrates, phosphates, calcium, Alkalinity and temperature.

I'm really not trying to be arrogant, I would just like to hear someone else say he had this problem and solved it by doing......... Maybe he did change one or more of the parameters for his tank. That would be good to know. I just hate to create another thread where a lot of speculation is offered, but actual individual experiences are never found.

In my case, the Zoas I have were purchased via mail order. All have been in the tank for two months. All opened when I first received them. Over the course of a week each colony opened less and less frequently and by the end of the first month, all remained closed. I dipped them in Coral RX and Iodine before adding them to the tank. I inspected them with a magnifying glass for hitchhikers/pests and have seen none.Other coral frags acquired at the same time seem to be OK except that any with red coloration look more like rust or red clay than a vibrant red now. Types include acans, favias, chalices, cyphastria and ricordia.

The tank is 125 gallons, It has been running with fish for 10 months. The corals were added 2 months ago. I have feed phytoplankton or reef roids once a week for the past month. I have not fish nipping at the corals. Algae is under control. I have a sump with filter socks, skimmer, ATO. Salt mix is reef crystals. I use RO/DI water, and change 25% monthly. I have two flow pumps pointed towards the center, one on each side of the tank.


Please, if you have solved this problem before, let me know.
I don't know that this counts as "solved", but my first zoas I immediately dipped in H202 (mild) and they closed up. They then started to look worse everyday. I tried moving to high/low flow, high/low light, every few weeks plus Coral RX dips. I accidently overdosed the whole tank in H2O2 fighting cyno. Months later they looked so bad my SO said I just toss them. I never did, just left them alone and kinda forgot about them. Now 8-9 months later after I got them they look spectacular and are spreading nicely. Sometimes they just need time to adjust I think. But I know it was difficult to just watch them appear to struggle day after day. I probably have 30 different types of zoas now - many looked great right away and others seem to just take some time. Never lost a colony yet.
 
It sounds like you want a one size fits all answer that simply does not exist. There are many answers to the problem because there are many causes. All the answers in the example threads you mention could all be possible problems, but you want an answer without sharing any of that info (of course even if you did there still wont be an answer with certainty... just the same suggestions you have already read in countless other threads).
 
Every tank is different every Zoa is different

dirty tanks usually work better for Zoas

I find my tank likes me dosing iodide for the zoas

there is no one answer

maybe pull the zoas and do another iodine dip

check to make sure the zoas haven’t gotten a film of algae over them since they have been closed

I have had zoas seemingly melt for no reason, but as long as tissue is left I leave in and forget they exist for a bit. I’d say 100% of the time they come back
 
There is definitely not a silver bullet.

Light is about par, spectrum and direction (shadowing).
Flow is not just intensity, it is also macro and micro motion (general flow vs oscillatory wave flow)
Dips can be helpful and harmful (Ex. H2O2 can help remedy an irritant, but it can also harm the polyp)

Learn how to overcome each problem how it not just applies to your tank, but also to that specific zoa in your tank.

General things that I have learned:
Better to apply aggressive dips (ex. H2O2) with a Q-tip vs dunking whole plug. In particular the skirt seems to be sensitive to damage from dips.

Lots of flow is good, but too much in one direction causes issues. Better to have a nice back and forth wave action where the polyps gently sway.

Algae can be an irritant. Sometimes the only solution is a brush and tweezers. If you do the H2O2 Q-tip above, you may have to follow up in the next days with a gentle brush. Less is more... if there is a lot of algae, do half today and half tomorrow vs all at once.

If a polyp is struggling, try to give it an independent 15 min feeding session. Put the plug in a small sample cup with some Lugol's, roids and aminos.

Some just take a while to settle in, then they take off. Patience is key.
 
It sounds like you want a one size fits all answer that simply does not exist. There are many answers to the problem because there are many causes. All the answers in the example threads you mention could all be possible problems, but you want an answer without sharing any of that info (of course even if you did there still wont be an answer with certainty... just the same suggestions you have already read in countless other threads).

Lots of problems could be solved by doing nothing as well.

Every tank is different every Zoa is different

dirty tanks usually work better for Zoas

I find my tank likes me dosing iodide for the zoas

there is no one answer

maybe pull the zoas and do another iodine dip

check to make sure the zoas haven’t gotten a film of algae over them since they have been closed

I have had zoas seemingly melt for no reason, but as long as tissue is left I leave in and forget they exist for a bit. I’d say 100% of the time they come back

There is definitely not a silver bullet.

Light is about par, spectrum and direction (shadowing).
Flow is not just intensity, it is also macro and micro motion (general flow vs oscillatory wave flow)
Dips can be helpful and harmful (Ex. H2O2 can help remedy an irritant, but it can also harm the polyp)

Learn how to overcome each problem how it not just applies to your tank, but also to that specific zoa in your tank.

General things that I have learned:
Better to apply aggressive dips (ex. H2O2) with a Q-tip vs dunking whole plug. In particular the skirt seems to be sensitive to damage from dips.

Lots of flow is good, but too much in one direction causes issues. Better to have a nice back and forth wave action where the polyps gently sway.

Algae can be an irritant. Sometimes the only solution is a brush and tweezers. If you do the H2O2 Q-tip above, you may have to follow up in the next days with a gentle brush. Less is more... if there is a lot of algae, do half today and half tomorrow vs all at once.

If a polyp is struggling, try to give it an independent 15 min feeding session. Put the plug in a small sample cup with some Lugol's, roids and aminos.

Some just take a while to settle in, then they take off. Patience is key.
Thank all of you for responding.

I'm not so naive to believe there is one single answer to this problem.

My primary objective to this point has been to seek stability in the various water parameters, lighting, etc following the guidelines provided in the reef chemistry articles and posts by the forum moderators. My preference is not to chase minor ups and downs and to let everything mature gradually at its own pace.

That said, others have the same experiences I have (as seen in some of the other responses), and others have had almost complete success from the start. If you haven't had this experience, then you are unlikely to be able to shed much light on the matter because you haven't had to worry about it, but thank you nonetheless. Even if you have experienced the problem, it may have been resolved without you ever knowing why (as some have indicated).

So, I don't expect an AH HA moment, I will have patience, but I'll still try to seek out advice from anyone who canrelate to what I'm experiencing.

Thanks again!
 
Everyone asks for parameters because that is the best way to try and diagnose what is wrong. It's hard enough to figure out why your own corals are unhappy much less some from a tank that you have never even seen. I have seen way to many threads where someone says their parameters are good and then when they list them they are not (I'm not implying that is your case). It seems unusual to me to refuse to list parameters, so basically all you are willing to say is that you have zoas that aren't happy and want a definite answer of why without hardly any more information? Anyone who gives you an answer to a question like that is just speculating no one would know for a absolute fact why your corals are unhappy.

Now that I've put my soapbox away, I had a rasta frag that was on my frag rag beside several other zoa/paly frags. Everything was happy but the rastas and they would sometimes open and be happy looking then go a few days without opening. I ended up putting them in very, very low light and flow and they opened up and have started spreading very well. I doubt that personal experience is of any help but that is how I fixed my zoas that wouldn't stay open.
 
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Where to even start...I run a zoa dominant 30 gallon long tank. I have found that each strain of zoas is different from the next. Some can handle being a half inch from the surface blasted with light and grow quickly while others only thrive down at the bottom. It really is a tough coral to keep when there are so many different needs for each type of zoa/paly. Another thing i have noticed is phosphates can be a big problem. Especially with more sensitive palys, if phosphates rise even a tiny bit, they close up. Not all zoas like nutrient heavy water. Sooooo, my advice? Try moving them up or down in the tank, other than that just keep the clean of irritants like algae and what not. I dunno if my rant has helped or not but zoas definitely can be a pain in the ****.

Now for some eye candy just because..

20210412_153223.jpg

 
I have had the same problems with some types of zoas not opening up. Most of the time moving the finicky ones to an area with less flow helped. I tend to run my tank a bit clean since I have a mix reef. Lately I have been turning my skimmer off for 6 hours or so to see if I can find a balance.
 

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