Does fat equal health in fish?

[vetteguy53081]

IMO, fat is not necessarily a sign of health but rather good diet. Good health will be expressed by stamina, breathing. Eye and skin appearance as well as eagerness to go after food

 

[NY_Caveman]

@eatbreakfast , @3Ford1AstonFamily... ;Wacky (jacked up user name), @HotRocks and #reefsquad

Is it myth or fact:

1) Fish grow the the tank size

2) If you have a larger fish in a smaller that recommended tank size...
It will grow smaller, but it's organs will keep growing and shorten the fishes lifespan

FWIW, @Rakie implied the fish stay smaller as the spine keeps growing. Part of his thoughts were in this post...

Yes, and they grow all messed up with bad spines, and typically become very aggressive and constantly stressed. The only times I've seen tangs work in small tanks is when they're disabled and can't utilize much room efficiently.

 

[Reefthedayaway]

Farmed fish are not unhealthy and I totally disagree with what you're saying about eating wild vs farmed. Yes wild can be more enjoyable to catch and cook but they also have far less access to food than those at fish farms, hence why they have a lower fat content, not because the diet is bad or they're unhealthy.

You are what you eat. Wild caught are healthy fish. Farmed fish are usually unhealthy, diseased and riddled with parasites. Farming fish is a cruel practice.

 

[Lasse]

FWIW, @Rakie implied the fish stay smaller as the spine keeps growing. Part of his thoughts were in this post...

IMO it is a myth. Fish grow according to how much feed they get. You tend to feed lesser in a smaller tank because the biological processes is mostly area/volume depended. With proper filtration you can grow fish fast and to a huge weight in small volymes. Just visit a fish farm.

By the way - I go nuts when I can eat nuts. The only problem with this is - my family and doctors also get nuts when they have to take care of a very sick Lasse.

I type from my cellphone - will comeback later on the issue with tangs and diet. Meantime - just a teaser - why is Tangs consider to be rather sensitive for diseases? Especially if they are newly imported.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

IMO it is a myth. Fish grow according to how much feed they get. You tend to feed lesser in a smaller tank because the biological processes is mostly area/volume depended. With proper filtration you can grow fish fast and to a huge weight in small volymes. Just visit a fish farm.

By the way - I go nuts when I can eat nuts. The only problem with this is - my family and doctors also get nuts when they have to take care of a very sick Lasse.

I type from my cellphone - will comeback later on the issue with tangs and diet. Meantime - just a teaser - why is Tangs consider to be rather sensitive for diseases?

Sincerely Lasse

Don't forget to chew nuts throughly before swallowing.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

You are what you eat. Wild caught are healthy fish. Farmed fish are usually unhealthy, diseased and riddled with parasites. Farming fish is a cruel practice.

Wild caught by pristine waters, Artic, Alaska, etc... Howard Stern ate wild caught(ate alot of fish,his main protein source diet) and got mercury poisoning. Pristine waters key.

 

[Hans-Werner]

If I remember right most tangs do not mainly feed on algae but on detritus which in fact is more rich in nutrients than the GHA it is fed from. The intestines and especially the teeth of algivore and detrivore fish differ. The detrivore fish have comb like teeth to scrape the detritus off the algae. The presence of detrivore fish nevertheless can inhibit algal growth because the algae lack the nutrients from the detritus.

I think a fatty liver is a sign of malnourishment. Fish fed with too much carbohydrates or the wrong or rancid fats get fatty livers. Fish fed with the right oils and proteins get well rounded proportions but will not get overly "blown up" like a big swollen liver would do.

I prefer fresh farmed salmon over frozen wild caught. The fatty farmed salmon is much mor juicy while the wild salmon is a bit dry for my taste. Of course fresh or frozen also makes a difference but I did not have the opportunity to get fresh wild caught salmon yet.

 

[Sailfinguy21]

Excellent topic. I used to underfeed my fish years back when I didn't have better ways to manage nutrients. I always struggled with fish not looking pretty healthy nor colorful. in current tank I feed at least 3-4 times and most of my fish are obese. I always worry about the fat content in fish and in the absence of supporting research in aquarium fish its a bit tricky to have any scientific data to support or oppose to heavy feeding.
We're not able to know the fat content in the liver or in tissues.
My theory is that fish exercise all day long by actively swimming, so as our fish are not genetically modified to build up more fat or grow faster and as we're not adding any hormones in their food and if we make sure to feed a variety of quality foods soaked in vitamins there shouldn't be any harm from them building up some weight and I think of that as healthy instead of fat. in the end fish in the wild eat all day as opposed to few feedings we give in our tanks.
Couple things I saw after I started feeding better is my flasher wrasses which always looked weak and didn't show optimal coloration and faded away and died within months did much better on all terms and I have a few with me since 2-3 years now. One other benefit I noticed is with fighting off disease when velvet skipped my Qt and I got an outbreak in my system with around 70 fish where fish were able to fight off for 2-3 weeks Vs dying in 48 hours which is more typical with velvet and I was able to save around 50% pf my fish which is a higher percentage ( as sad as losing fish is) when facing velvet.

As for the salmon comment while this is not the topic here I doubt enough wild salmon can be caught to supply the demand and it is the fat that makes the salmon taste better.

True i know this is a different fish ill be using. But discus... Discus fish ivr been keeping for 10+ years.. The general concesus (spelling lol) for them is to feed feed feed feed feed and feed some more... feed them beef heart.. Think about that for a second.. Cows heart... lol i dont think discus 8n the wild ever ate a cows heart.

Yet ive been guilty of doing it and so do most discus owners. Ive seen some discus so HUGE they look like they are on steriods... Now you have some people who make there own food... Using beef heart as the main ingrediant but mixing veggies and vitamins ect... But again i ask you do discus eat seaweed ? No they dont.

Discus like most fresh water fish eat fly and bug larvae.. Not veggies... and not cow heart.


What this does to a discus besides turn then into hulk discus I dont know... but going off humans and fatty liver disease i will say it isnt healthy for them.. of course some people use bloodworms and i think they are the closest thin to natural food.

To be honest though... I think our marine fish get fed a better diet then people who have fresh water... Most of us will feed nori and feed a meaty based or veggy based pellt or flake food.

So when i see a fat marine fish or fat any fish.. my imediate instinct will be BUY HIM.

However it doesnt mean the fish was fed properly. I have a yellow tang a friend gave me.. fist sized maybe a tad bigger.. but he is FAT im talking kim kartrashion fat booty.. But his skin pigment isnt very dark yellow.. hes faded.. even has white blotchs on some spots... his fins are all healthy and i dont see any erosion..

Now take my own personal yellow tang.. same size... but i spoil him daily 2-3x a dsy with nori and vitamin enriched veggy flake food... Hes not as FAT but hes really yellow and has no white blotchs.

Anyway i type too much lol

 

[Stigigemla]

I just read the whole thread. 2 things struck me. In the beginning when comparing fattiness for fishes and humans no one said that fat people carry their overweight. 10 or 20% of their weight or maybe more is a big load to lift everytime You stand up. A fish never lift their overweight. They adjust their swimbladder instead.
I have been loking at a myriad of fish photos from the wild and I very seldom see a fat fish. But on a majority of the photos they have a very thick stomach (Not so much for planctivores like Anthias)
I think that comes from a very low nutrition value in the food. So please dont mix up a thick belly with a lot of nutrition.

 

[Lasse]

If I remember right most tangs do not mainly feed on algae but on detritus which in fact is more rich in nutrients than the GHA it is fed from. The intestines and especially the teeth of algivore and detrivore differ. The detrivore fish have comb like teeth to scrape the detritus off the algae. The presence of detrivore fish nevertheless can inhibit algal growth because the algae lack the nutrients from the detritus.

I think a fatty liver is a sign of malnourishment. Fish fed with too much carbohydrates or the wrong or rancid fats get fatty livers. Fish fed with the right oils and proteins get well rounded proportions but will not get overly "blown up" like a big swollen liver would do.

I prefer fresh farmed salmon over frozen wild caught. The fatty farmed salmon is much mor juicy while the wild salmon is a bit dry for my taste. Of course fresh or frozen also makes a difference but I did not have the opportunity to get fresh wild caught salmon yet.

I think that the German term "aufwuchs" feeder is the right name. However, they have still a long instentine - 6 - 10 times longer than a carnivourus/omnivorous fish. This is because it take longer time to digest this food compared with meat of different types. However - I have seen studies that indicate that even these fish can adapt their instentine length if they change food types. But this rise the question about if it is right way to treat newly imported aufwuchs feeder with meaty food. I have not very much experiences with tangs but a huge experiences with other aufwuchs feeders like the Tropheus genus.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Don't forget to chew nuts throughly before swallowing.

Gotta take care of my favorite Uncle in Europe. Heeee

 

[Lasse]

The problem is that I'm not allergic to nuts - not at all. However they are fat and difficult to digest. They block my instentine and I end up on a table with very bright light. So chewing does not help

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

The problem is that I'm not allergic to nuts - not at all. However they are fat and difficult to digest. They block my instentine and I end up on a table with very bright light. So chewing does not help

Sincerely Lasse

A friend had issues with nuts,thorough chewing helped him. Thought doctors mention that. Your in worst condition than I thought. Take care of your self, uncle Lasse.

 

[OrionN]

Wild caught by pristine waters, Artic, Alaska, etc... Howard Stern ate wild caught(ate alot of fish,his main protein source diet) and got mercury poisoning. Pristine waters key.

A process call Biological Amplification.
Organism can only get rid of stuff that is water soluble, or conjugated (altered by the liver) to a water soluble metabolites. If a substance is not water soluble and the body cannot make it water soluble, thus meaning it is fat soluble, then it stay in the organism. DDT, Mercury, and some heavy metal, like lead, are not water soluble and cannot be make soluble by the body will get concentrate as it go up the food web. Human, the ultimate predator will get these toxin build up in their body.
When I was young I remember playing with liquid Mercury. We dump these in the environment and later find them wind their way into the world ocean and back into our body.
The Ocean is vast but not infinite. All the people in the world tend to dump waste into the river or water way. Even land trash will eventually find their way into the water eventually (but only the water soluble part of it). They all will end up on the ocean and some of these long term pollutants will make their way back into human body.
The moral of this story?
Eat tangs, not tuna or salmon. They are healthier.

 

[Lasse]

A process call Biological Amplification.
Organism can only get rid of stuff that is water soluble, or conjugated (altered by the liver) to a water soluble metabolites. If a substance is not water soluble and the body cannot make it water soluble, thus meaning it is fat soluble, then it stay in the organism. DDT, Mercury, and some heavy metal, like lead, are not water soluble and cannot be make soluble by the body will get concentrate as it go up the food web. Human, the ultimate predator will get these toxin build up in their body.
When I was young I remember playing with liquid Mercury. We dump these in the environment and later find them wind their way into the world ocean and back into our body.
The Ocean is vast but not infinite. All the people in the world tend to dump waste into the river or water way. Even land trash will eventually find their way into the water eventually (but only the water soluble part of it). They all will end up on the ocean and some of these long term pollutants will make their way back into human body.
The moral of this story?
Eat tangs, not tuna or salmon. They are healthier.

Your right - this one reason why I only use fat soluble chemicals when it is a question of live or death.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[siggy]

I gotta disagree that fat fish are uncommon in nature. I rarely see skinny fish but I see lots of fat (my wife prefers the term "fluffy") fish

Fish eat all day long.
A pre & post spawn fish will gorge themselves to the point they look like they will POP, and they are still aggressively feeding. I catch fish that frequently puke a dozen small minnows on the deck of the boat during these events.

My tang goes nuts for frozen meaty foods, as well as the nori. Shocker, all of my wrasse also go nuts for nori. They are supposed to be carnivores. Heck, even my two leopard wrasse join in on the nori and they are supposed to eat copepods.

My B/G Chromis tear into nori if that is placed in the tank before pellets

“Fish have very simple digestive systems. The more you feed the more they crap.”

Lasse is a fish like a bird in that regards?

Howard Stern ate wild caught(ate alot of fish,his main protein source diet) and got mercury poisoning.

Only eat young fish! old fish have collected amounts.

Eat tangs, not tuna or salmon. They are healthier.

I have lived on the Great Lakes for over 50 years, a normal fish is chunky. I am now seeing a thinner class of fish than I have in my younger days due to Invasive Zebra and Quagga Mussels. They have totally altered the ecosystem This year the DNR reduced the Bag limits on yellow perch from 50 to 25 per day due to the declining populations. The perch feed on small crustaceans (sand fleas) that feed on micro organisms in the water, the mussels filter over 10X there weight per day. water clarity has increased from 6" to 3' . The fish I see know are smaller and thinner

 

[chicago]

My fish when feed a few times a day and fat play more nicely with their tank mates. ..

 

[Lasse]

Lasse is a fish like a bird in that regards?

I do not know anything about birds more than that the Dinosaurs did not get extinct

Some fish have just a tube - mostly omnivorous and carnivorous fish. Other - still a tube but rather long and winding - mostly herbivores but also fish feeding on Periphyton (aufwuch). Some fish have the digestive track as a straight line but there is fish there the instentine does a bend under the stomach - like the European eel. This fish can't eat and poop the same time .

Another thinkable fact is that it is believed that a reef ecosystem have developed the most diversed feeding specialists in the whole world: Still we talk about the importance of variation of the food types for single species........

Fat and a stable body is not the same. I'm fat but Schwarzenegger have a stable body (The ones that have seen me understand the joke and the comparison )

Sincerely Lasse

 

[siggy]

Dinosaurs did not get extinct

 

[ZoWhat]

every fish should go see a good CARDIOLOGIST at least once a year