Does my LFS suck?

[MoreReefPlease]

I'm in the Chicago area (Between Joliet and Plainfield) and TBH, the LFS I've been to around here are somewhat lacking. The one decent place I've been to has prices on corals and inverts that is CRAZY high.

I can seriously get DOUBLE the amount of corals from LiveAquaria and also make sure they're captive grown and disease free for the same price as my LFS in this area.

It's disappointing to move from some podunk town in Iowa to Chicago and not have as good of a reef store ....

If he has good looking tanks with healthy fish and corals, perhaps listen to what the ole guy has to say, eh? He might impart some wisdom.

To be honest, running a reef is a lot like like anything else when it comes to hobbyists. We all have our own tried and true methods and products that work for us so we're sold on them!

 

[DanSavesTheDay]

My local LFS went from having some great prices on fish to having some insane prices on fish. Some of the fish had nearly quadrupled in price and this was before the COVID-19 outbreak and I was told it was because they had a different vendor. Some of the fish end up being 50-60% higher than LiveAquaria and aren't even put through any type of QT. Usually if I wish to purchase a fish I usually wait a week til my next paycheck only to find they had passed in that time frame from shipping stress, disease or mixed with bad tank mates.

Back when I started the hobby about 3 months in I lost my entire tank to an ich outbreak from some new fish from the LFS and since then I have almost exclusively bought online. I can only blame myself for that because I didn't know about QT procedures back then and my LFS doesn't carry anything like Safety Stop.

Their prices on corals is pretty crazy too I offered a green nephtea colony for $100 trade in and they didn't want to pay that but for less than a finger length frag of it they want $50 and their frogspawns and euphyllia are $60+ per head for the cheaper variations. Another reason I won't pick up any coral from my LFS is there is Aiptasia everywhere. I've had it back when I had a 40 gallon and used Aiptasia-X but once you get them they seem almost impossible to get rid of.

When it comes to any chemicals/sand or salt mixes I find the prices to be about 25-40% higher in store than most online sites like BRS and SWA.

I am good friends with the Manager and employees but they have no pull when it comes to making decisions which is left to the owner.

 

[Mario0240]

If your LFS has good looking tanks and will open just for you to get something you need outside of normal hours, I would say not only does your LFS *not* suck, but that it’s a pretty good one.
You ask why does it carry mainly Seachem products. I don’t think it would be possible for a local small store to have a stock room equivalent of Amazon, or even BRS.
I also don’t think it’s bad to ask you why you want to dose since there are a number of threads here where people start dosing because they think they “should” and run into problems. Perhaps he was asking to make sure you had a reason and weren’t wasting your money?

as for the price differences between small businesses and amazon...well amazon will always win. And amazon has so many problems with labor practices and terrible working conditions that I save up to pay for more expensive equipment because I’d rather support businesses that hopefully treat employees like humans and because I don’t want to live in a world where corporations are even stronger.

What’s funny is as I’ve been replying to stuff, I’ve been realizing that he doesn’t necessarily suck, he’s just a small business trying to stay afloat. He gives good advice and has helped me before. So I really can’t complain to be honest. I’ll definitely keep buying livestock from him and food. But equipment is going to be coming from online retailers. I just.m can’t stomach those price hikes. I just don’t like feeling like I got screwed over, regardless of amazon or anyone else’s business practices.
Thank you for making the other points though. It’s the feedback I’m looking for.

 

[zoomonster]

Yeah I have known places like that in places I have lived. Around Orlando its not too bad except livestock and supply prices in general. With most equipment it does not matter (well except paying sales tax) because they all follow MAP pricing and most stuff is the same price everywhere. I throw them a bone now and then, mostly when I need something right now. Probably 95% of supplies and livestock comes from BRS, Amazon and various online livestock shops.

 

[Mario0240]

My local LFS went from having some great prices on fish to having some insane prices on fish. Some of the fish had nearly quadrupled in price and this was before the COVID-19 outbreak and I was told it was because they had a different vendor. Some of the fish end up being 50-60% higher than LiveAquaria and aren't even put through any type of QT. Usually if I wish to purchase a fish I usually wait a week til my next paycheck only to find they had passed in that time frame from shipping stress, disease or mixed with bad tank mates.

Back when I started the hobby about 3 months in I lost my entire tank to an ich outbreak from some new fish from the LFS and since then I have almost exclusively bought online. I can only blame myself for that because I didn't know about QT procedures back then and my LFS doesn't carry anything like Safety Stop.

Their prices on corals is pretty crazy too I offered a green nephtea colony for $100 trade in and they didn't want to pay that but for less than a finger length frag of it they want $50 and their frogspawns and euphyllia are $60+ per head for the cheaper variations. Another reason I won't pick up any coral from my LFS is there is Aiptasia everywhere. I've had it back when I had a 40 gallon and used Aiptasia-X but once you get them they seem almost impossible to get rid of.

When it comes to any chemicals/sand or salt mixes I find the prices to be about 25-40% higher in store than most online sites like BRS and SWA.

I am good friends with the Manager and employees but they have no pull when it comes to making decisions which is left to the owner.

Sounds rough!!

 

[NS Mike D]

I'm in the Chicago area (Between Joliet and Plainfield) and TBH, the LFS I've been to around here are somewhat lacking. The one decent place I've been to has prices on corals and inverts that is CRAZY high.

I can seriously get DOUBLE the amount of corals from LiveAquaria and also make sure they're captive grown and disease free for the same price as my LFS in this area.

It's disappointing to move from some podunk town in Iowa to Chicago and not have as good of a reef store ....

If he has good looking tanks with healthy fish and corals, perhaps listen to what the ole guy has to say, eh? He might impart some wisdom.

To be honest, running a reef is a lot like like anything else when it comes to hobbyists. We all have our own tried and true methods and products that work for us so we're sold on them!

There is a cost to being able to inspect the actual corals before buying and a cost savings for not having to pay for overnight shipping. I do not expect a LFS to compete on pricing with a large etailer - if they did, they'd be out of. business. You pay for personal service and in store experience. If you don't value that, so be it. It's not the LFS fault, It's the economics of rent.

 

[tehmadreefer]

Also FWIW, he’s not always rude. Just when I bring up wanting to try dosing kalk, for example. It’s why would you want to do that. If it’s working don’t change it etc. he also doesn’t carry any kalk, one line of 2 part (which is fritz), and only IO salt (which is heavily marked up as well).

well he has a good point there!!

 

[fish farmer]

This is off topic but Vermont is near and dear to my heart. My mother was born and raised in Barre and her family used to be a very large presence there but have all passed on now. I live outside Atlanta, haven’t been to Vermont since 2012 when I came to be with my dying aunt. Other than one cousin in Berlin I have no more living relatives there. My grandparents had a cabin on Lake Champlain too. What part of the state are you in?

Brandon...north of Rutland.

 

[Mario0240]

There is a cost to being able to inspect the actual corals before buying and a cost savings for not having to pay for overnight shipping. I do not expect to an LFS to compete on pricing with a large etailer - if they did, they's be out of. business. You pay for personal service and in store experience. If you don't value that, so be it. It's not the LFS fault, It's the economics of rent.

The lfs here is usually on par, if not $5-10 more than what would be online pricing. I don’t mind it personally. But I see some shops marking stuff up insanely. Could it be due to local demand?

 

[MoreReefPlease]

What’s funny is as I’ve been replying to stuff, I’ve been realizing that he doesn’t necessarily suck, he’s just a small business trying to stay afloat. He gives good advice and has helped me before. So I really can’t complain to be honest. I’ll definitely keep buying livestock from him and food. But equipment is going to be coming from online retailers. I just.m can’t stomach those price hikes. I just don’t like feeling like I got screwed over, regardless of amazon or anyone else’s business practices.
Thank you for making the other points though. It’s the feedback I’m looking for.

See! This is why sometimes we just need to take a step back and reevaluate. There are few perfect LFS, we just have to play the hand we're dealt and make the best of it.

 

[NS Mike D]

The lfs here is usually on par, if not $5-10 more than what would be online pricing. I don’t mind it personally. But I see some shops marking stuff up insanely. Could it be due to local demand?

or lack thereof. There are products they have to carry but don't move fast. A product sitting on a shelf is costing the owner money (opportunity costs) and so they mark it up for that occasional sale.

 

[DanSavesTheDay]

Sounds rough!!

Oh god I was ticked when I lost all my fish about 2 years ago. They didn't ever tell me anything about Quarantine I had to find out about it after all the death. The whole 40G setup was a birthday present and I even went through the prolonged period of cycling the tank. Now that all that is done and in the past all I can say is it was a learning experience.

As for prices I am really glad BRS and Saltwateraquarium exist because I can still get good prices on there.

 

[Mario0240]

See! This is why sometimes we just need to take a step back and reevaluate. There are few perfect LFS, we just have to play the hand we're dealt and make the best of it.

You’re exactly right! I guess I was looking for perfection, but between him and the r2r community, I can get all the help I need.

 

[DanSavesTheDay]

There was a pretty decently stocked reef store up here a few years ago - a fair amount of corals, mostly LPS, but hey, I'll take it. Went in a few times for hermit shells, salt. Then, the one time I tried to buy a coral - was looking at a duncan he had in a tank - said something like 'Duncans - $20 per head' on the sign. So I pried him away from the hardcore flirting he was doing with a very young female employee, he finally comes over. I asked for three heads of that duncan - he looks in the tank and says curtly, "That's not for sale," with absolutely no explanation. I pointed to the sign and he (rudely this time) said "THAT'S NOT FOR SALE."

I went and found my wife who was looking at a lamp for the girl's gecko and told her to put it back and that we're never coming back here. We didn't. They're closed now. Good riddance.

I've seen the same exact situation almost play out at a different LFS I've been to. Customer service is definitely something that should be prioritized and nowadays in a situation like that I turn to posting a Google Review to let others know of my experience.

 

[jcolliii]

I've seen the same exact situation almost play out at a different LFS I've been to. Customer service is definitely something that should be prioritized and nowadays in a situation like that I turn to posting a Google Review to let others know of my experience.

Yep. Probably should have. I have since run into 2 or 3 other people that I know who have had almost exactly the same experience. They closed I want to say a year ago or so. Didn't even go to their liquidation sale. It really is a shame the owner was such a moron. I really believe this was the main reason this place is defunct now. Have to drive 2 hours to the nearest reef place now (well, when this virus stuff isn't going on).

 

[X-37B]

I understand the whole support your LFS mantra but I'm not doing much of that anymore. Our city has maybe 4 or 5 places to shop. None of them are really that bad or rude, but they just dont cater to hobbyists who have been around around a couple years i feel. All of them carry Ecotech and Neptune gear, stuff I'm not into, no fault to them really. I like my GHL gear, run metal halides, use Tunze pumps. That stuff is non existent here so if I have a problem with something I have to go online to deal with it anyways. I have a gen4 xr15 and the one LFS, that I bought a pair of these from, I asked twice last year if they could order me a diffuser to try, still haven't heard back. That was one of a few things I asked them to help me out with but no reply. Most of the live rock bins I see here are just dry rock that is cured and usually growing bubble algae and aptasia. Fish are hit or miss with disease.
So ya, I'll just stick to online shopping for the most part.

I run all Tunze gear and not one of the lfs are into it. One does sell the Tunze ato. One runs chinese black boxes, one runs homemade led, and another all Eco Tech. They all work. I did buy a used ATI T5 unit for cheap from one of them.
Also bought my 120 from one. Paid more than I should have but got to see it first which to me was worth the extra cost. Bought my frag tank from them too.
They have honest people who dont try to push thier way on you.
The thing I dislike about lfs are the ones who know it all and "try to tell you" that your way is wrong.
I buy all my coral from all 3. Never bought fish or corals online.
If I want a coral or fish they will hold it for a week if its new. Works for me.

 

[fish farmer]

I've seen the same exact situation almost play out at a different LFS I've been to. Customer service is definitely something that should be prioritized and nowadays in a situation like that I turn to posting a Google Review to let others know of my experience.

I can think of one store in the Boston area that has been in business for a very long time. You can go and find plenty of bad reviews, but then plenty of good, they usually focus around a particular person who I had a weird experience with as well.

They have lots of product, decent displays, although I have seen dead coral mush before, lots of fish to chose from. It's a Petco sized store but focused on fresh, salt and brackish fish. I reluctantly shop there when in town, they are doing something right to stay in business.

 

[jcolliii]

I can think of one store in the Boston area that has been in business for a very long time. You can go and find plenty of bad reviews, but then plenty of good, they usually focus around a particular person who I had a weird experience with as well.

I'm a Masshole, so I can say this from experience: People expect to be treated rudely in Boston. It's part of the charm. Lol - j/k. No excuse for that.

 

[Neoalchemist]

I think you have every right to be selective when it comes to spending money. If you can get it cheaper else where, and getting the best price is a priority for you, then do that. On the flip side, I think we know why most small businesses have to charge so much more for their products... products that would be cheaper at places like BRS, who can afford to charge less. Last thing I would suggest is to try putting yourself in your local store owner situation and ask... what would you do in order to stay above float while trying to stay competitive with others like BRS?

What they usually do to stay afloat is to turn their back on lifelong hobbiests in favor of selling a nano setup and a nem and pair of clowns to some other clowns. The lights take a swim, the nem dies in three days and the one piece of dry rock becomes a bryopsis forest. You see it in a month on Craigslist.
Meanwhile I keep going to the lfs to see if they have thing as simple as decent carbon...nada, nothing. They absolutely never have anything I need or want, and when questioned the answer is always "we can order that for you. Well, I can order it myself,cheaper and faster. Even livestock. I don't want a Mandarin or a Sally Lightfoot crab or a Unicorn Tang. But noobs buy these things and regret it over and over. So my choices are Red Sea, API, and 20 different types of anemones most of which aren't appropriate for aquarium life but yet they stock them over and over again.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I think the reason LFS prices seem ridiculous on equipment is because they are used to marking everything up 200%, which I can understand on livestock because of the losses. But it really makes them look bad on equipment and dry goods.