I do not recall seeing that data.
No - I disagree - there are not hundreds of reports of people getting better from a cold from eating applesauce. But - I see the analogy. My point was simple the chemical tests are not in-vivo. Prime does not claim to 'remove' ammonia - but merely detoxify it for a short period of time. I am not convinced that the testing done proves that the ammonia is not lowered - due to the fact that the tests used are not specific nor sensitive enough to do so - nor are other possibilities excluded. I'm not a fan of Prime - I'm just saying - multiple people have had remarkable success using it quite soon after adding it to a tank (for whatever unexplained reason) - Agree with you - thats not 'proof' - but its also not just to be brushed aside. If we're going to do that - we can toss out cipro for anemones, fluconazole for algae, etc. Right?
I'm sorry in my post above I said that there is nothing to show that Prime does not LOWER ammonia - what I meant to say is there is nothing in those experiments that show Prime does not DETOXIFY ammonia in vivo. I agree with you - that based on the testing that was done, with the methods used, that there was no clear evidence that Prime lowers free ammonia (and as you said/implied - Seachem says that it at least a couple of their tests should do so).Well, you are welcome to your opinion on the tests, but I do not agree with your assessment. We have hashed out those hypotheses over the many pages of this thread, and the experiments do hold up and refute Seachem's claims directly that such a test as we used WILL show that Prime works. But they do not in the hands of Reefers.
Post 3 of this thread:
"Jonathan, the short answer is that I found no free ammonia reduction using Prime and measuring free ammonia with the Seneye or Seachem’s Ammonia Alert badge."
Yet Seachem claims it works, but never anywhere, provides data:
I am using Prime® to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?Seachem - Prime
www.seachem.com
A: A Nessler based kit will not read ammonia properly if you are using Prime®... it will look "off scale", sort of a muddy brown (incidentally a Nessler kit will not work with any other products similar to Prime®). A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime® complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away. However, the best solution ;-) is to use our MultiTest™ Ammonia kit; it uses a gas exchange sensor system which is not affected by the presence of Prime® or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (total ammonia is both free ammonia and non-toxic ionized forms of ammonia).
I worked with ClorAmX after reading the patent. I was optimistic about seeing an effect. I could not reproduce the patent observations with three different ammonia sensing films and a spectrophotometer. Also note the large concentrations being used in the patent versus the recommended dosage.
And the answer:??? BTW - we're concentrating on reef tanks - there are like 3-5 products available at Petsmart today - the declare they detox ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.
www.reef2reef.com
