Does quarantine help or really hurt the fish?

[TheDragonsReef]

Definitely helps if done properly. However, it is very easy to kill fish if you dont take your time or rush treatments. Once you run into velvet for your first time youll never question qt again.

 

[polyppal]

QT procedures vary widely, and with it so does the risk to the livestock and the effectiveness of the quarantine in the first place. There are people who have invented their own procedures that involve bananas or garlic or whatever, and there's people that immediately jump to the most severe/toxic option. Your not likely to see much success at either end of that scale. Then there's the people who don't QT at all because they haven't run into problems or tank crashes with disease, so they they take their success as proof that it isn't needed, or even go as far as to suggest its detrimental...

The point being that like most things on these forums, success is usually found somewhere in the middle - when people utilize proven and repeatable procedures that have been deemed widely successful by thousands of experienced aquarists and professionals. That involves research, an investment in time and equipment, and patience that some people just don't have, so they go another route (and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't). Each person has to weigh the risks on their own along with thier goals and how it will affect their tanks success. Don't think that's ever gonna change in this hobby...

 

[mdrobc13]

I've learned the hard way better to QT than not. Yes you can lose fish and its hard on them BUT one sick fish that looked okay and/or was presented as healthy can devastate an entire tank. Have seen it happen twice with my current tank due to marine velvet where said fish (an Achilles) wasn't quarantined prior to introduction to the rest of the tank and family. Lost EVERY fish but one a filefish..not sure why. So for me especially so as its gets more difficult to obtain fish from certain areas (Hawaii ban) and given the increasing cost of some fish especially during COVID19. it becomes a mandatory thing not an option..I'll QT mine so they can all be healthy and enjoyed.

Using the following general guide for copper level and Just finished working on a more organized QT/hospital setup this weekend. 4 tanks and ability to QT any new fish long term without worrying about space or equipment before entry into my DT.

 

[hds4216]

@Jay Hemdal, the foremost expert on fish disease on the forum, noted a while back that he does not recommend using the no quarantine method for the average hobbyist.

I really think not quarantining is playing russian roulette - velvet, for example, can lead to a total wipeout. Hundreds of threads on this forum show that.

 

[josephxsxn]

If fish were like people and when they got sick would just kind of come and get in the net for me so that I could move them over to the other tank... I would consider not prophylactically treating them in QT but unfortunately they either have no idea that I want them in the net or they know and are refusing lol.

Personally I don't have the skill to sample the gills to check for other flukes and parasites, Heck I could even be misreading something as normal. From my point of view it's entirely likely that some level of additional stress is taking place during quarantine with or without medications, for the fish under my care this is just simply the price that they have to pay for entry into the club/fishhouse.

 

[HuduVudu]

Lost EVERY fish but one a filefish..not sure why.

Maybe there are other factors at play? Maybe QT is the knee jerk reaction that everyone has to these mystifying losses.

The picture of your QT tank is that everyone shows. This is a VERY stressful environment for the fish. If you are will to accept the losses from doing this then that is your choice, but I have tried that in so many different ways for years and years that I am done with it. I have way better success without QT'ing and providing a proper environment for the fish from the git-go.

 

[HuduVudu]

@Jay Hemdal, the foremost expert on fish disease on the forum, noted a while back that he does not recommend using the no quarantine method for the average hobbyist.

I really think not quarantining is playing russian roulette - velvet, for example, can lead to a total wipeout. Hundreds of threads on this forum show that.

Yup and Jay works in a public aquarium with a different set of needs a priorities than the average hobbyist.

Taking the advice of someone that maintains something no where near what you do, needs proper context to understand and use that advice.

 

[HuduVudu]

for the fish under my care this is just simply the price that they have to pay for entry into the club/fishhouse.

 

[hds4216]

Yup and Jay works in a public aquarium with a different set of needs a priorities than the average hobbyist.

Taking the advice of someone that maintains something no where near what you do, needs proper context to understand and use that advice.

He was specifically talking about the average hobbyist.

I also fail to see the difference between a tank maintained by public aquaria and one maintained by a hobbyist when it comes to disease. You can't just claim that there's a magical difference between the two that makes QT essential at one without the other without explaining your point.

I also think a single encounter with velvet would be enough to change your mind.

 

[Paul B]

I also think a single encounter with velvet would be enough to change your mind.

Remember my tank is 50 years old.

 

[JCTReefer]

Remember my tank is 50 years old.

I would really be interested in what the Aquabiomics “E-dna” and Microbiome test would say about your tank. That would super interesting!!!!! I’m guessing you have the oldest tank on here!!!

 

[Paul B]

My tank was tested by Aquabiomedics I think 2 years ago. If he is on here he could re publish my results because I don't know what I did with them.

But there was certainly no velvet, ich, intestinal worms etc. causing any problems although I hope those things are in my tank.
I don't know if I have the oldest tank, but I am one of the oldest guys on here.

Here are some of my Ich Magnet fish. Look closely to see if you see any spots. That fireclown is 30 and he is so lucky that in 30 years he has never encountered velvet which is surprising considering the disease forum and quarantined tanks are loaded with it.

 

[HuduVudu]

He was specifically talking about the average hobbyist.

Yes, he is specifically talking about the average hobbyist. My point is that HE is NOT the average hobbyist. His experience is not theirs. His vendors are not theirs. His equipment is not theirs. His boss is not theirs. His expectations are not theirs.

Think about this point carefully.

I also fail to see the difference between a tank maintained by public aquaria and one maintained by a hobbyist when it comes to disease.

Then perhaps you should join your local reef club and wait for the behind the scenes tours of your nearby public aquaria. I think that this would be enlightening to you.

You can't just claim that there's a magical difference between the two that makes QT essential at one without the other without explaining your point.

I have explained my point unfortunately you probably haven't seen the post.

The short version:
Think of this in your job, when you are making a decision which decision will you make the one that works for a large number of people but is against what are considered "best" practices of your industry, or the one that everyone considers "best" practice?

If you choose the first one if something happens you will be not only without a job but your career will be ruined you will never work again. In the second one if something happens you MAY be without a job but you WILL work again.

This is the poisoned Skittles example.

I do not fault Jay for this I am just saying he is coming from a different perspective and we as hobbyists would be well advised to take this into consideration when we listen to what he says. And we SHOULD listen to what he says.

I also think a single encounter with velvet would be enough to change your mind.

You make a lot of assumptions, about people and their aquariums. You would be wise to either ask questions or if you are going to assume, assume positively.

 

[hds4216]

Yes, he is specifically talking about the average hobbyist. My point is that HE is NOT the average hobbyist. His experience is not theirs. His vendors are not theirs. His equipment is not theirs. His boss is not theirs. His expectations are not theirs.

Think about this point carefully.


Then perhaps you should join your local reef club and wait for the behind the scenes tours of your nearby public aquaria. I think that this would be enlightening to you.


I have explained my point unfortunately you probably haven't seen the post.

The short version:
Think of this in your job, when you are making a decision which decision will you make the one that works for a large number of people but is against what are considered "best" practices of your industry, or the one that everyone considers "best" practice?

If you choose the first one if something happens you will be not only without a job but your career will be ruined you will never work again. In the second one if something happens you MAY be without a job but you WILL work again.

This is the poisoned Skittles example.

I do not fault Jay for this I am just saying he is coming from a different perspective and we as hobbyists would be well advised to take this into consideration when we listen to what he says. And we SHOULD listen to what he says.


You make a lot of assumptions, about people and their aquariums. You would be wise to either ask questions or if you are going to assume, assume positively.

We have to agree to disagree, because I agree with exactly none of these points.

 

[josephxsxn]

I understand and respect your reaction. Your definitely on the right path of do no harm. The largest issue preventing myself from this is that observation itself seems far to easy to make a mistake on. Having already did the 78 day fallow and breaking down my entire 167gallon to catch the fish I have no desire to experience it again.

The testing that Aquabiomics is doing could go a long way to changing my mind in the future. I would pay to check for fish pathogens in a more reliable and surefire way.

 

[HuduVudu]

We have to agree to disagree, because I agree with exactly none of these points.

All good.

Just remember that whether we agree with something or not does not mean that it isn't valid or true. FWIW.

 

[HuduVudu]

The largest issue preventing myself from this is that observation itself seems far to easy to make a mistake on.

This is the paradox of this hobby.

All we really have is observation. We do get some science but it always comes with caveats. I spend more time trying to devise ways of verifying my observations than I do anything else. It is hard and we are all in it trying to find the answers.

 

[kenchilada]

I will never understand why people get so upset over this topic. Do your own research and do what works best for you.

“Anger is never without a reason, but seldom with a good one.” -Benjamin Franklin

 

[brandon429]

I just wanted to point out that everyday in the fish disease forum its qt and fallow pulling all the weight.
and in the back of the wagon they're all debating which method works best. some of those ways might indeed emerge to be prominent in the help forums, but that day awaits.

this method of comparison I find to be ideal because it doesn't directly insult anyone's technique, it only focuses on the ones found being applied where all the help is being requested. those posters are adamant to provide feedback, so methods offered are gravitating to qt and fallow it seems.

 

[JCTReefer]

The testing that Aquabiomics is doing could go a long way to changing my mind in the future. I would pay to check for fish pathogens in a more reliable and surefire way.

I currently have a captive bred YT in quarantine shipped directly from Ft Lauderdale. I’m assuming the fish is fairly clean being captive bred. I contacted Biota directly asking about their bio security measures. Jake from Biota emailed me back and stated he still recommends quarantining.
He said
“Our captive-bred fish are hardy in the sense that they are accustomed to being moved and around aquariums so they adapt very well to environments and diets. They are young though so I would monitor treatments especially with copper on tang species as that stress can cause HLLE to develop. The fish at our facility are never in contact with anything wild caught but I do urge hobbyists to still have their own quarantine procedures. “

With the above statement, the fish has been under observation “only” for the last month. No medications have been administered. I’m actually quite paranoid about throwing my usual meds at this Tiny individual. This thing was relatively expensive. We all know what their wild caught counterparts are going for these days, which is one of the reasons for purchasing CB. Not the only reason, but one of them. I sent samples off Friday to Aquabiomics having the Edna test done on both the main DT and quarantine tank. I’m anxious to find out what the results are. This might become my new method for determining fish health instead of
solely relying upon physical observation. Of course I know not all quarantine situations will allow for this method.