Does tank size limit fish size?

[ngvu1]

That is a pretty cool fish!

Puffers are another fish that can get huge no matter what tank they are in. I collected this little 1/2" burrfish in the sea and put him in a 5 gallon tank. He grew very fast and I put him in a 10 gallon tank and he kept growing so I donated him to a public aquarium.

 

[Kershaw]

Dose this apply to sharks?

 

[Paul B]

I am glad this thread spurred some discussion and not the normal threads such as: "I have a 20 gallon tank help me pick out fish, I want red ones". Or I just bought a mandarin and he won't eat flakes, what should I do?
I realize "this original" question has no answer, but there are so many arguments because some people do think there is a definite answer here. The only answers can be opinions because there are to many variables. First we have to be able to keep fish to their normal lifespan, and most people don't even have a tank that old yet. Some fish, we just don't know their lifespan for that reason. Even hermit crabs live to 12 years as I have kept them that long. I mentioned that clowns can live to almost 30 years. I really don't know because mine is only 25. Maybe they can live fifty or sixty years. We don't know because no one has ever tried to keep one that long. (In a home aquarium)
We will argue about if fish have feelings. Do I know? No. I don't think they feel pain the way we do but I know they feel something. I hope that a creature that was designed to always be eaten alive doesn't feel much pain. Do they have remorse? I don't know that either, but I feel that a creature that almost always eats it's young as soon as they are born can't have much emotions.
As for real pain, I have seen a shark almost bitten in half so that it was trailing it's intestines many feet behind and it's main goal was to try to eat it's own guts. In my tank I had a hippo tang and he had a shrimp in his mouth. A triggerfish came by and took the shrimp along with the hippo's entire mouth. The hippo didn't seem to care and didn't even seem to notice as he swam around for a week trying to eat even thought he couldn't. If you have ever gone flounder fishing and you caught one that was to small so you threw it back, how many times have you caught that same fish a few minutes later?
Does this all mean that fish do not feel pain? I don't know, but all I have to go on is my observations and "not" re hashed information or rumors that some people believe just because they love their fish. If you are a religious person, Jesus ate fish all the time. I am sure they suffocated on the deck of his boat just as they do today and I doubt he did anything to alleviate their pain.
Many of us feed Mysis, worms, clams, shrimp, squid etc to our fish. Do those things we are feeding have less rights than the creatures we are trying to keep? Did the flounder I ate last night have any rights? How about that dead shrimp we cycled our tank with? If we used a live shrimp or fish people would be all over us as to how cruel that is but if someone else killed that shrimp so we could let it rot, that is fine! Does this make any sense to anyone? Some of us eat hamburgers and wear leather shoes. Did that cow have as many rights as that goldfish we fed our triggerfish? Why?

 

[tj w]

Great write up Paul. I myself have always wondered about this very thing. I'm just restocking my 300g at this time so I'll be documenting the growth of all my fish. My 55g cichlid tank, the fish seem to still be growing after 5 years. I'll either be re homing a few or upgrading in the future, if my wife approves[emoji6]

 

[Paul B]

You should be able to keep just about any common salt water fish in a 300 gallon tank. The largest salt water fish normally kept pops into my head are lookdowns. I love those but they will grow to large in my tank. I know they won't get to their full size because I kept them many years ago but I gave them away as they are not really a coral fish and generally swim above the corals because they are just not designed to get into crevices. Many people will (and do) hate me for my feelings about fish, but I am not trying to make new friends, just spur a discussion. I can't help it if these are my opinions that I acquired from a long lifetime of observing fish in their environment. As I said, I am not saying all fish will stop growing to the tank size, many of them will keep growing and some, probably the majority will just grow very slowly. I am relatively sure we don't know if the fish are "happy" as that is an emotion I doubt fish have. I feel, as I said, if they are living to their normal lifespan and spawning, they are as happy as they are going to get. I also feel that if any of your fish are dying of any disease, you did something wrong as fish should never get sick except for maybe pop eye or getting beat up.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Great thread Paul! Sharing...

 

[Paul B]

Thanks revhtree. I am very surprised this was so civil which I am happy about. It's just a discussion and not a rule or something you have to go by or even listen to much less agree with. It's an observation.

Dose this apply to sharks?

I can't answer that because I never kept sharks long enough for them to grow, I always gave them away. But I am sure that if you take almost any shark besides an epilet or some other tiny shark, and put it in any tank, you will have problems because even small sharks grow at least 6' long and sharks are not designed to turn very well due to their fin composition so a square tank just won't cut it as they will keep crashing.

 

[Brian Kim]

Thanks for sharing your long time experience with us...I do agree with you!

 

[smiley28]

We need an expert on the nerve system of fish and a clear breakdown of their brain into their nerve system. That and extensive knowledge on how long fish ( Broken down to species?) can live which probably isn't known to be exact, but might be close if you know what I'm trying to say? Also then an extensive study on the average lifespan of the particular species in what is its "natural" habitat.

This is a class I would love to take. Forget human anatomy..

 

[sc50964]

Puffers are another fish that can get huge no matter what tank they are in. I collected this little 1/2" burrfish in the sea and put him in a 5 gallon tank. He grew very fast and I put him in a 10 gallon tank and he kept growing so I donated him to a public aquarium.

Good job I'm never heard his puffer surviving in Captivity

 

[Paul B]

We need an expert on the nerve system of fish and a clear breakdown of their brain into their nerve system. That and extensive knowledge on how long fish ( Broken down to species?) can live which probably isn't known to be exact, but might be close if you know what I'm trying to say? Also then an extensive study on the average lifespan of the particular species in what is its "natural" habitat.

This is a class I would love to take. Forget human anatomy..

I am certainly not an expert on the nervous system of a fish or anything else except undergravel filters. but I wrote this which delves into their nervous system a little.
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/wish-were-fish-with-lateral-line-system-6482/

Thanks for sharing your long time experience with us...I do agree with you!

Really! That is amazing.

Good job I'm never heard his puffer surviving in Captivity

This is that little burrfish when I caught him with a large net in the Atlantic. He was tiny and extremely cute. Of course I couldn't put him in my reef because I think he could eat through the glass. They are very easy fish to keep but don't "like" captivity. Like many puffers he kept swimming up and down trying to get through the glass. He even developed an eye infection from doing that which I cured and he was fine. He even went blind for a couple of weeks so I had to dim his light. His sight came back so I could see his beautiful green eyes. Remember I saved him from certain death because he is a tropical fish that got caught up in the Gulf Stream like many fish and eventually they die here in New York as it gets cold. I gave him to a public aquarium and hopefully he is 2' long and still there. Those, like most fish will live a very long life if you feed them what they are supposed to eat. Something that has live bacteria in it to keep their immune system working perfectly so the fish will stay immune from most things.

 

[smiley28]

Read the write up and I've got to say that I agree with what you wrote.

Edit: really wish someone with a bit more info would stop by.

 

[Paul B]

Really! Thank you.

 

[ca1ore]

When I was in college, my room-mate kept Oscars (yes, not marine, I know) and the running joke was that he had 28 gallons of Oscar and 2 gallons of water. We used to call them veal 1 and veal 2.

I agree that some fish seem to grow regardless of tank size, and others because of it.

 

[tripdad]

I have to say it.....Bravo old chap!!!! Finally someone states the truth(in my opinion)..... we really don't have a definitive answer. I think that with experience we all try to do what's best for those in our care. I have to say the dog and cat comparison( used by many) doesn't really apply as most breeds are so far removed from "wild" stock that they would die if re-introduced to the "natural world". I think most of our reefstock is still closely connected to wild stocks but with the advent of captive bred stocks will be interesting to see if traits differ in the same species relative to wild caught stock. I agree the aim should be a healthy, peaceful animal that dies of old age. Hope that applies to me as well, hah! Thanks again for sticking your neck out for our enlightenment and enjoyment.

 

[Paul B]

Imagine if I posted this thread on Reef Central . I am sure they would have deleted it as soon as the ink was dry. So to speak. I did get a little flack on some forums, but not much and no one yelled or threw eggs at me
We all have opinions. There are so many threads I won't participate in any more such as ground probes, GFCIs, hair algae, ich and quarantining. Some of my ideas are different and I won't just put something out there because that is the current wisdom. I already have enough friends. Besides those things I wrote about in my book so all the people who don't like my ideas just don't have to read the book.
You are correct about the dogs and cats. I realized that when I wrote it but was to lazy to remove it. But the bird thing still stands. People keep parrots that were collected in the wild and I assume they would rather be outside. Of course that is just a guess. I also feel that if there is a tang in my 100 gallon tank for 12 years he is probably living longer in there than he would in the sea where predators are everywhere. Guessing again.
So many people complain about tank size then put a tang in a small quarantine tank for 72 days and wonder why he croaked.
I am old and opinionated, what can I say?

 

[Tautog]

It was always my understanding that fish in captivity excrete a hormone that will stop, or at least slow - down growth. I've been keeping fish for 40+ years, fresh, salt, outdoor pond. The pond has to be the most maintenance free of all. In other words, the pond results were self-maintenance the most of any other tank. The least care, with the best results, the pond.
Therefore, when extra care was given, it seemed to be the water changes that always made the difference. More water changes, less hormone, more fish growth.
Or is it less or no nitrate available?
My friend is running a 60 gal. swordtail and Molly tank for 40 years. He feeds twice a day, monthly water and filter changes. Has about 100 fish at any given time. Fish don't grow overly large.
The real question goes out to the reefers that DONT change water?......?????

 

[Paul B]

I am not sure if water changes will affect this or not. I am not even sure if it is hormones that does this as fish also depend immensely on their lateral line. Remember a fish can detect the glass of an aquarium. They know they are confined and can't get away. This "may" have some effect on their growth. But like almost everything, I am guessing.

 

[Sapper577]

This is our Hippo in a 90. He is 7 years old. He has not grown much in about 3 years. He's about 5 inches from nose to tail. This system has been up a little over a year. It was living in a 75 in our basement where it had most of its growth.
The Sailfin underneath it however is about 1 1/2 years. He was about as big as a .50 cent piece when we got him. I am hoping i wont have to trap him and trade him. He is awesome at bubble algae control. His growth seems to be slowing down.
I feed a variety of foods. Algae sheets, frozen shrimp, flake,pellets, etc. Everything has always been healthy.
I did have a Naso that I did have to trade. It lasted about 3 years in anther 90 and he never stopped growing.

 

[pache11]

My 12 gal JBJ

Everyone is happy!!!